Let's talk a little about online poker, career and profitability?

[ZenonBR]

Welcome to this online poker discussion thread.

Let's go, I'll put some topics to be discussed here, so I'll try to be as brief as possible.

What do you think about online poker today, do you believe it is possible to start a career in poker and be profitable today?

- We know that in the early days of online poker in the mid-2000s, online poker was much easier to become profitable than today, perhaps you will take this into consideration when answering this question.

- You may be an excellent player, but you are often destroyed by badbets, so you go through a long downsize period.
And you simply don't know how much time you need to spend for your skill to be profitable within poker.

Knowing this, do you believe that being a great poker player like the great players is more a matter of luck, skill or being able to make good buy-ins?

Finally, what are the obstacles that you believe need to be overcome with the new reality of current online poker?

Leave your opinions, and everything you think about the current online poker scenario, thank you.

Hugs.

 

[puzzlefish]

I feel that there is already a group of players that are successful in their poker careers. Of course it is possible. A lot depends on how a person defines their goalposts for this. If it's just profitability, then that's a very low bar. If it's a living wage, then that's a higher bar. If it's a life of glamour just from clicking buttons (for some or most of the day), that's a very high bar, and especially so if you're starting from a micro bankroll or nothing.

There's a group of elite players that have the benefit of having money to begin with and/or good connections to money, which allows for a completely different experience in online poker from the vast majority grinding away in the slums.

 

[pentazepam]

You have Bots, RTA, Collusion, AI, High Rake, and fewer and fewer fish/whales Online.

Live Cash Games are the only way to make a career in poker if you want it as a job. Unless you live in a VERY low-cost living country.

If you try to go professional Online in 2024 you are either insane or have assistance from tools. I guess if you are a sponsored pro working for the poker site it is also possible.

Smart people can make A LOT more money in other jobs than they can in poker.

Play online for training, pocket money, and/or fun.

 

[Newzooozooo]

I think it takes at least 5 years to become a profitable player. In addition, during these 5 years, you have to work hard at least 5-6 days a week, at least 8-10 hours a day, play, work on yourself, analyse your game, work on your mistakes, and all the while you also have to build your bankroll continuously. In fact, it is a hard daily work. If someone thinks that poker is easy money, they are deeply mistaken.

 

[john_entony]

Welcome to this online poker discussion thread.

Let's go, I'll put some topics to be discussed here, so I'll try to be as brief as possible.

What do you think about online poker today, do you believe it is possible to start a career in poker and be profitable today?

- We know that in the early days of online poker in the mid-2000s, online poker was much easier to become profitable than today, perhaps you will take this into consideration when answering this question.

- You may be an excellent player, but you are often destroyed by badbets, so you go through a long downsize period.
And you simply don't know how much time you need to spend for your skill to be profitable within poker.

Knowing this, do you believe that being a great poker player like the great players is more a matter of luck, skill or being able to make good buy-ins?

Finally, what are the obstacles that you believe need to be overcome with the new reality of current online poker?

Leave your opinions, and everything you think about the current online poker scenario, thank you.

Hugs.

You need to learn to identify each player's style. For example, you bluff very often on the board, but when you turn over 2 times, you almost always give the pot. You very rarely continue the game if you see aggression from your opponents. It's a good game and you won't change it. In online poker, due to the lack of ability to read players' emotions, statistics play a crucial role. It is possible to become successful in online poker, but you have to work very hard and create statistics on each player. Or have a perfect memory.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Knowing this, do you believe that being a great poker player like the great players is more a matter of luck, skill or being able to make good buy-ins?

Finally, what are the obstacles that you believe need to be overcome with the new reality of current online poker?

.

The obstacles
- one's mental ability
- How driven a person is

The fact is, there ARE people who are currently earning a living from playing online poker... in both Tournaments & CashGames. People who suggest otherwise don't seem to be aware of the current situation.

Of course it is nothing like it was 15years ago. Things changed dramatically after 'Black Friday' when USA players were no longer able to play on tables with ROW (rest of World) players. More information has become available for players, making it potentially much easier to get better at the game.

People who suggest it just takes having more money so you're able to play in higher buyins do not know what they are talking about. If a person is good at the game, they will be able to build a bankroll and move up in buyins. ALSO, they will be able to apply for assistance via a staking deal once they have a proven track record.

Most newer (new'ish') players VASTLY overestimate their playing ability (they aren't good enough at the game to even realize that they aren't that good at the game). This is 'normal' for the game of poker. A typical example for a player who has been playing for ~2 years.... 1 year ago they probably considered themself to be good at the game but looking back now, they can see how bad they actually were.

When a person gets better at this game they will see just how much more there is to learn (it goes far, far beyond what you can imagine today).

If you want to get better at this game... What are you doing in order to achieve this?

 

[Jean-Guy]

90% decline in online poker player pool in 10-12 years. That means there are few High Stakes tables and only at GG - which is not licensed in my country - and pokerstars, which has been my home turf for a couple of decades. Preferably plays NL2000, but also NL1000 and now and then NL500.
All the regs on these stakes are obviously
into the Nitty Gritty of GTO. Winning players typically score 6-10 BB per hour. Before GTO, and when there were ten times as many players, 15-20BB was not unusual. So yes, the game has gotten tougher. It also makes it more exciting. I have a good job - I am a PhD - and that is the main focus. So it typically only turns into about 8 hours of poker (a little more if there is action on NL2000) per week.
I am very bad at tournament poker and never plays it. The motivation, of course, is to make money. In the past, there was also the adrenaline rush. I no longer experience this. There are both pros and cons to that.
I never tell anyone but my wife what my bottom line results are. Quite a few of my college students play poker. None of them have any idea I'm playing too.
I am very private about poker. Never been to a poker forum before. And I probably won't stay there for long either. I do, however, like the respectful tone that most people contribute on Cardschat.
PS! There is no such thing as luck in cash games. In the long run - and nothing else matters - it is 100% skills. Mr. Negreanu did not win tons of millions because he is lucky. Bottom line it is all skills.

 

[Rost]

I'm almost convinced that this is a matter of your personal desire in the first place. If your goal is to become a professional and you really want to, it means that you can quite realistically achieve your goal, provided you are willing to spend years of your most valuable resource, your time. Maybe it will take 5 years, maybe 10, or maybe 25. Only you can answer the question whether you are ready to make such sacrifices to achieve your goal.

 

[63burner]

One thing that is ignored: the opportunity cost(what a player could do instead of playing poker) For example, if you only break even playing(difficult), the cost is at least the minimum wage per hour. If you have a skill, it's a lot of money, per hour.
Some can be professsnal players, but show me the books first: how much won, how much lost, entry fees, rake.
No matter how good of a player one is, you have to be increadbly lucky to make money. Any tourney, it's only the top 10% that get ITM, and to get to the decent money, it's the top 5-1%.

 

[SpanRmonka]

Of course players can make money online......its way tougher than prevously yes. All you had to do before was play pretty tight and pretty solid and make money.
Now everyone is learning and games are tougher, freebies are less, but some players still beat each level. This is not luck over the long run, its some luck but mostly dedication to the game, to learning consistently. Some may also have some natural talent for the game, which you could consider luck. For example if you find maths is obvious to you, you have an advantage, or maybe reading patterns is your skill.

In my opinion is no different from many walks of life, if you have the attitude, and the right aptitude, along with the correct basic skills, o the ability to learn them quickly then you can succeed.

You won't succeed if you mostly whinge about RNG, suck outs, bad beats as these things are holding players back too!

 

[Cooking]

I've played poker in the good years, so, I can say that nowadays is way more difficult to be a professional player. I still think it's very possible to be profitable, but if the amount of profits is enough to live it depends of your own needs. I'm from the same country as you, so, I know that play poker would probably be a very good option for someone that can only win the average salary.
I think if anyone wants to be a professional, it's necessary to study a lot (like most of the days, every week) and have discipline to always follow bankroll management. Luck is important of course, but in the long run, skills and discipline are way more important. I know I can't never be a professional player because I don't have patience to grind 8-10 hours per day and deal with all the bad beats everyday. Also, I'm not very disciplined.

 

[dori111]

my profit in online poker for 2024 is quite modest but for someone it is quite a good amount somewhere around 1400 dollars for this year

 

[MishkaZL]

I don't plan to become a great poker player, but I would like to have a stable income from poker. currently, I have an average of $50-70 per month, but I want more and I'm ready to work for it. I hope to reach an income of $100-150 per month next year.

 

[Sparta77]

I think a lot of people can certainly accumulate some profit a month, but to live on it... that's only a few people can. As a hobby player, I can't make a living off of this.

 

[Duxflux]

What I find interesting about online poker is that success isn’t just about talent—it’s also heavily influenced by discipline. Then there’s the psychological component. It’s no coincidence that some of the most successful players, like Fedor Holz or Daniel Negreanu, started their careers as young men. They didn’t have big responsibilities and, in the worst case, could always take a different path. What I’m trying to say is: the less financial pressure you have, the easier it is to handle a downswing and stay motivated to keep going.

I came across an approach that I found really fascinating and convincing:
If you stick to bankroll management, you can theoretically never lose in poker. The idea is simple: if your bankroll drops below $150, you switch to playing freerolls until you build it back up. Once you're over that $150 mark again, you only risk 0.5% to 3% of your bankroll per game. If you hit another downswing, you go back to playing freerolls.

I found this approach so appealing because, let’s be honest, the most painful part of poker is losing your own money. This strategy makes the game feel more strategic and long-term, which really excites me. I’m actually trying it myself and aiming to build a €150 bankroll on the side. I’ve done it before, starting with just freerolls, but I cashed out too early. I probably should’ve kept playing and building it up.

Now, I’m giving it another shot—let’s see how it goes!

 

[Lena M]

I think that, just like now and 10 years ago, it is quite possible to become a professional player. But to do so, you have to work hard and go to your goal step by step. There will be many obstacles along the way, but if you are serious about it, your chances of becoming a professional are quite real.

 

[steve01991]

to make a career out of online poker you would have to devote all your waking hours to play. Way to much effort for your reward i think.

 

[Jean-Guy]

What I find interesting about online poker is that success isn’t just about talent—it’s also heavily influenced by discipline. Then there’s the psychological component. It’s no coincidence that some of the most successful players, like Fedor Holz or Daniel Negreanu, started their careers as young men. They didn’t have big responsibilities and, in the worst case, could always take a different path. What I’m trying to say is: the less financial pressure you have, the easier it is to handle a downswing and stay motivated to keep going.

I came across an approach that I found really fascinating and convincing:
If you stick to bankroll management, you can theoretically never lose in poker. The idea is simple: if your bankroll drops below $150, you switch to playing freerolls until you build it back up. Once you're over that $150 mark again, you only risk 0.5% to 3% of your bankroll per game. If you hit another downswing, you go back to playing freerolls.

I found this approach so appealing because, let’s be honest, the most painful part of poker is losing your own money. This strategy makes the game feel more strategic and long-term, which really excites me. I’m actually trying it myself and aiming to build a €150 bankroll on the side. I’ve done it before, starting with just freerolls, but I cashed out too early. I probably should’ve kept playing and building it up.

Now, I’m giving it another shot—let’s see how it goes!

Interesting reflections. The path from freerolls to pro is however a grand illusion. To become pro you can’t do it playing online tours. Besides flawless and proven skills - via thousand of hours under your belt and endless hours of studying - you must have a serious bankroll of at least $50.000. At any given time there are no more than 30.000 online cash game players, and 10% are estimated to be winning players. Of these 3.000 winning player max 300 are pros. And that is worldwide. So many think they can go pro and so so few fulfill their dream. And if you are young do you not want a solid education? Do you want to be amongst the working poor or unemployed when your dream most likely crashes? Do you think “aspiring pro” looks good on your curriculum vitae? As you se I ain’t sugarcoating you. By the way 90% of the online pros play cash game players.
Playing brick and morter is every bit as problematic. Won’t dwelve on this topic here.
The gist of it: Be real. Be realistic and do not be caught on the endless road of broken dreams.

 

[RALF_AK]

Poker can be a complex game with several adverse situations, but we can determine the outcome when we have a large sample of tournaments played, with the right moves and with skill and knowledge we will be more profitable in the long run. Respecting your bankroll is also a big secret to success.