IADaveMark
Rock Star
Silver Level
After spending 200-300 hours (9 bracelet events and 2 dailies) at the poker table over my 3 different weeks at the wsop this summer, many of them with the same players for 6-12 hours, I was subconsciously compiling a list of really annoying things that players did... not just once but over and over. These are things that are easy to fix. They aren't in the category of "dude, STFU..." etc. They are standard poker table actions that people either do out of habit or because they just are simply not aware of how it affects others and the table flow as a whole.
Single Chip Stack
If you stack all your chips, regardless of denomination, into a single stack, you now have to take your stack apart in order to place a bet. This is even more annoying when you are only going to be finding 1 or 2 of a single denomination. So, for example, if the chips in play are 100, 500, 1000, and 5000, and you have them all in a single stack (and, by rule, having the largest denomination on top), if you are simply calling a bet of 200, you now have to lift a ton of your chips off, possibly even putting them off to the side, just so you can get down to the 2x 100 chips you are looking for.
Compare this to having each denomination in their own stack where that same 200 bet is a 3-second process to grab and place.
Mixed up Stacks
In a similar fashion—but significantly worse—is having your chips mixed up entirely. Now just to place a bet, you have to sift through what you have and find the right one or right combination of chips.
Just like above, having them arranged where you can see and get to the right one(s) quickly speeds up the game for everyone. And also possibly prevents mistakes on your part.
Sizing your Stacks
Now that we have put things in their proper place (arranged like a cash drawer), it really helps—especially as stacks get deeper—to have your chips in stacks of the same size. Eventually, the accepted height is 20 chips but for a long time, it is better to have them in 10s. Obviously, if you have fewer than 10 or 20 of a type of chip, they are in shorter stacks. If you have more than 10 or 20, then the remainder is put in their own shorter stack.
Why do this?
In the pics above (taken from my WSOP adventures), it doesn't take long to count up the I'm playing 39,100 on the left and 441,000 on the right.
For those of you playing at home:
When you are placing your bet, you don't get any style points for having your chips do backflips and try to stick the landing. Just place it out there. If you are putting air under them, they are going to bounce to who knows where—into the existing pot (bad), into other players' stacks (bad), into the dealer's well (bad), or off the table entirely ("Floor! Table 236!"). Even if you don't put air under them and send them forward with a toss, there's a pretty good chance that they are going to roll into the aforementioned areas (until we start using non-circular chips, I suppose). Never mind the annoyance factor of everyone trying slap down or corral chips, it takes extra time to put it all back together and try to figure out what you bet in the first place.
A better way is to simply place them forward in a single or multiple identically-sized stacks. (e.g. when betting 800, instead of a stack of 8 chips, cut them into two stacks of 4 side by side).
Another common way, especially for multiple denominations is to gently topple the chip stack so they are fanned out.
This is really common for smaller bets (e.g. 2-6 chips of a single or mixed denomination). If you are going to do it, though, spread it perpendicular to you rather than pushing it forward. The reason for this is that it is much easier to see them when they are laid out left to right rather than forward or back. In the latter case, some chips may be covered by others so it is hard to get a count. This is especially bad if one of the ones covered is a higher denomination. Deciding to call 300 when it was really 400 is no big deal. 300 instead of 800? Or 1300? That's a bit more of an issue.
Again, it speeds things up.
Using the Single Chip Rule
The "single chip rule" can be used to your advantage so you aren't wasting your (and everyone else's) time by moving massive stacks of chips around. When combined with verbal bets, they are just as effective. While verbal is binding, many places want to see that chip move forward simply for confirmation on the cameras.
Some examples:
By saying "all in" and tossing a single chip in, you don't have to worry about putting in your massive stack and, if you either win the pot through folds or can pull your bet back because you are getting the rest of the pot, you don't have to restack all your stuff. If someone wants a count, you already should have a good idea anyway if you are stacking your chips like above. It's also easier for the dealer to confirm in place rather than pulling every single stack forward and reassembling it for counting. And if they do have to pull it forward, you have already sorted out the stacks for them. They can break them down quickly to confirm sizes and move on.
Saying "call" and tossing a single chip in is similar. Whether the other player is all in or simply put in any bet, you can sort out how many chips are moving and it which direction later. Often, the dealer will play out the rest of the board or both players will simply showdown if you are on the river. If you lose you can cut out what the all in player deserves (or just shove your whole stack across at that point if you are covered). If you win, you don't have to move your chips at all. That's good since you are going to be busy collecting and stacking your new chips from the pot. Done.
Again, it saves a bunch of time.
Pick your Spots for Change
Giving change between players is great. There are plenty of times when we are going to need more of a certain denomination than we have. Offering it is good just like asking for it is OK. However, there are times and places to not do it.
In big blind ante situations (which pretty much everywhere is playing these days), make sure your ante is square to the actual value so it can be pulled in without change. Your BB doesn't matter because the dealer can give you change when it comes around to you after everyone has bet.
Examples:
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I'll probably remember more of the annoyances and efficiency issues and just post them further here in this thread.
Single Chip Stack
If you stack all your chips, regardless of denomination, into a single stack, you now have to take your stack apart in order to place a bet. This is even more annoying when you are only going to be finding 1 or 2 of a single denomination. So, for example, if the chips in play are 100, 500, 1000, and 5000, and you have them all in a single stack (and, by rule, having the largest denomination on top), if you are simply calling a bet of 200, you now have to lift a ton of your chips off, possibly even putting them off to the side, just so you can get down to the 2x 100 chips you are looking for.
Compare this to having each denomination in their own stack where that same 200 bet is a 3-second process to grab and place.
Mixed up Stacks
In a similar fashion—but significantly worse—is having your chips mixed up entirely. Now just to place a bet, you have to sift through what you have and find the right one or right combination of chips.
Just like above, having them arranged where you can see and get to the right one(s) quickly speeds up the game for everyone. And also possibly prevents mistakes on your part.
Sizing your Stacks
Now that we have put things in their proper place (arranged like a cash drawer), it really helps—especially as stacks get deeper—to have your chips in stacks of the same size. Eventually, the accepted height is 20 chips but for a long time, it is better to have them in 10s. Obviously, if you have fewer than 10 or 20 of a type of chip, they are in shorter stacks. If you have more than 10 or 20, then the remainder is put in their own shorter stack.
Why do this?
- Easier for you to know how much you have
- Easier for others to know how much you have (and thus avoids many of the frequent questions about how much you have behind)
- Easier for you to bet certain amounts merely by grabbing a column and moving it forward
- Easier for you to give change to the dealer or another player for the same reason. If someone tosses me a 1k chip, I can grab a stack of 100s and slide it to them. Sure, we cut it in half and spread one of them into the 5x 100s and stack it back up, but that's just for visual confirmation for both of us
- Easier for the inevitable all in bets for you, the dealer, and the other players to know how much it is. (I have a much-appreciated habit of saying, "all in... 26,400" just to head off the inevitable question.)
In the pics above (taken from my WSOP adventures), it doesn't take long to count up the I'm playing 39,100 on the left and 441,000 on the right.
For those of you playing at home:
- 15k + 20k + 1k + 1k +2k +100 = 39,100
- 175k + 200k + 25k + 40k + 1k = 441,000
When you are placing your bet, you don't get any style points for having your chips do backflips and try to stick the landing. Just place it out there. If you are putting air under them, they are going to bounce to who knows where—into the existing pot (bad), into other players' stacks (bad), into the dealer's well (bad), or off the table entirely ("Floor! Table 236!"). Even if you don't put air under them and send them forward with a toss, there's a pretty good chance that they are going to roll into the aforementioned areas (until we start using non-circular chips, I suppose). Never mind the annoyance factor of everyone trying slap down or corral chips, it takes extra time to put it all back together and try to figure out what you bet in the first place.
A better way is to simply place them forward in a single or multiple identically-sized stacks. (e.g. when betting 800, instead of a stack of 8 chips, cut them into two stacks of 4 side by side).
Another common way, especially for multiple denominations is to gently topple the chip stack so they are fanned out.
This is really common for smaller bets (e.g. 2-6 chips of a single or mixed denomination). If you are going to do it, though, spread it perpendicular to you rather than pushing it forward. The reason for this is that it is much easier to see them when they are laid out left to right rather than forward or back. In the latter case, some chips may be covered by others so it is hard to get a count. This is especially bad if one of the ones covered is a higher denomination. Deciding to call 300 when it was really 400 is no big deal. 300 instead of 800? Or 1300? That's a bit more of an issue.
Again, it speeds things up.
Using the Single Chip Rule
The "single chip rule" can be used to your advantage so you aren't wasting your (and everyone else's) time by moving massive stacks of chips around. When combined with verbal bets, they are just as effective. While verbal is binding, many places want to see that chip move forward simply for confirmation on the cameras.
Some examples:
By saying "all in" and tossing a single chip in, you don't have to worry about putting in your massive stack and, if you either win the pot through folds or can pull your bet back because you are getting the rest of the pot, you don't have to restack all your stuff. If someone wants a count, you already should have a good idea anyway if you are stacking your chips like above. It's also easier for the dealer to confirm in place rather than pulling every single stack forward and reassembling it for counting. And if they do have to pull it forward, you have already sorted out the stacks for them. They can break them down quickly to confirm sizes and move on.
Saying "call" and tossing a single chip in is similar. Whether the other player is all in or simply put in any bet, you can sort out how many chips are moving and it which direction later. Often, the dealer will play out the rest of the board or both players will simply showdown if you are on the river. If you lose you can cut out what the all in player deserves (or just shove your whole stack across at that point if you are covered). If you win, you don't have to move your chips at all. That's good since you are going to be busy collecting and stacking your new chips from the pot. Done.
Again, it saves a bunch of time.
Pick your Spots for Change
Giving change between players is great. There are plenty of times when we are going to need more of a certain denomination than we have. Offering it is good just like asking for it is OK. However, there are times and places to not do it.
- Don't automatically make change for someone's active bet without first either asking them or getting a confirmation from the dealer that you are doing it. This simply falls into the category of "don't touch someone else's chips".
- Yeah, you can do it during a hand that you are not in, but don't do it across a player that has a bet in front of them. For example, if seat 3 has a bet out, seats 2 and 4 shouldn't be doing change across that bet. Not only is it distracting for the active player or anyone else who is reading that person's bet, things can go wrong with the chips where there is some confusion about which chips are who's.
- In the same vein, don't do it across the pot. If you are in seat 1, don't get change from seat 4 or 5 when there is a pot sitting to the left of the board area.
In big blind ante situations (which pretty much everywhere is playing these days), make sure your ante is square to the actual value so it can be pulled in without change. Your BB doesn't matter because the dealer can give you change when it comes around to you after everyone has bet.
Examples:
- If it is 400/800/800, put the 800 out there exactly (get change beforehand if you need to) but you can put a 1k chip in front of you for your BB.
- If it is 300/500/500, don't put a single 1k chip in front of you. (That's even worse because the dealer can't just make change for the ante alone.)
----
I'll probably remember more of the annoyances and efficiency issues and just post them further here in this thread.
