When draws have showdown value

[fundiver199]

A common way to think about poker is, that we either have a draw or a made hand. But in reality things are more complicated than that, because made hands can sometimes also improve, and draws can sometimes win without improving. So when we are considering, if we are getting the right odds to call with a draw, we also need to factor in, if we can perhaps sometimes win the hand without improving. This hand is from an MTT or On Demand SnG, I played on ACR Poker today. The hand history say 0+0, but it was somewhere between a $4.4 and $11 game.

When I called his big flop bet and turn barrel it was definitely with the mindset, that I was behind and trying to improve. So I was pretty happy with the showdown, and it just goes to show, that its always better to continue with a draw, that has more showdown value. Like in this case a K high flushdraw as opposed to say a 6 high flushdraw. Not only does it give a higher chance of being on the good side, if a flush over flush cooler happen. There is also a higher chance, that hitting a pair of Ks will give us the best hand, and sometimes we dont even need to improve to win.

From the opponents perspective he should obviously just have folded his trash hand preflop. But if you raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn and end up on the river with a hand, that has no chance of winning at showdown, like his 8 high, you should strongly consider to empty the clip, especially when there are busted draws in your opponents range. This time it would have worked, and he would have gotten away with his big bluff.

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[IRINA70]

It's surprising that this bluffer didn't even load a barrel with his trash on the river...
Would you have responded if he had gone all-in?

 

[fundiver199]

Would you have responded if he had gone all-in?

I would have snap folded.

 

[fefibecerra]

I'm surprised that he bet the flop, turn, but not the river. I guess villain thought hero had a made hand and kinda gave up?

 

[fundiver199]

I guess villain thought hero had a made hand and kinda gave up?

Most likely yes.

 

[bablovod]

After so much betting, a check on the river could almost trigger an attack, and that's what I would do, but it could also be a good trap. If I were the villain, I would continue bluffing to evaluate my opponent. If I were you, I would also raise on the turn, but that would depend on the situation and my knowledge of the table.

 

[eberetta1]

Gosh. My motto is give myself a chance to win, so on the river I would have raised to provide one last chance for the table to fold. I have won so many hands with nothing.

 

[puzzlefish]

This, in a weird way, looks like a results-oriented tutorial post. If we look a bit deeper into it, we see that the villain has a very large stack (60bb range) and is most likely trying to push the table around with that. And that especially applies to the BTN-on-BB violence spot, which is often misunderstood by players who just open their ranges up too much from the button and then play their trash hyper-aggro. By the turn, villain realizes that there's quite a good chance that hero actually has something and so villain decides to shut it down and fight another day.

I can't say that the moral of the story really is to follow through with your bluffs and stay committed when lighting your stack on fire from the BTN position.

 

[fundiver199]

If we look a bit deeper into it, we see that the villain has a very large stack (60bb range) and is most likely trying to push the table around with that.

We were still far from the money with late registration still available, so it was not a situation, where having a large stack allow anyone to "push the table around". But of course its possible, he was trying to do it anyway. Its not a player, I had any particular information about.

 

[Luvepoker]

Great example here on how to play s draw like this. Especially when we have showdown value.

 

[hjuosh]

A common way to think about poker is, that we either have a draw or a made hand. But in reality things are more complicated than that, because made hands can sometimes also improve, and draws can sometimes win without improving. So when we are considering, if we are getting the right odds to call with a draw, we also need to factor in, if we can perhaps sometimes win the hand without improving. This hand is from an MTT or On Demand SnG, I played on ACR Poker today. The hand history say 0+0, but it was somewhere between a $4.4 and $11 game.

When I called his big flop bet and turn barrel it was definitely with the mindset, that I was behind and trying to improve. So I was pretty happy with the showdown, and it just goes to show, that its always better to continue with a draw, that has more showdown value. Like in this case a K high flushdraw as opposed to say a 6 high flushdraw. Not only does it give a higher chance of being on the good side, if a flush over flush cooler happen. There is also a higher chance, that hitting a pair of Ks will give us the best hand, and sometimes we dont even need to improve to win.

From the opponents perspective he should obviously just have folded his trash hand preflop. But if you raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn and end up on the river with a hand, that has no chance of winning at showdown, like his 8 high, you should strongly consider to empty the clip, especially when there are busted draws in your opponents range. This time it would have worked, and he would have gotten away with his big bluff.

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Hahaha... Sorry. But I can't leave to comment the name. He makes honor. COMPULSIVOON. 🤣

 

[eetenor]

After so much betting, a check on the river could almost trigger an attack, and that's what I would do, but it could also be a good trap. If I were the villain, I would continue bluffing to evaluate my opponent. If I were you, I would also raise on the turn, but that would depend on the situation and my knowledge of the table.

I am unsure why we would check raise on the turn when our V now makes 2 pair plus hands often ? The V can have AX of hearts as they would open all AX hearts from BTN so blocking our best draw and never folding as well .

 

[ROYALROAD]

It all depends on the situation. Let's look at more factors.

 

[Mr.$t0k]

Good point, I think we should consider all possible options for a showdown. and our high card should also be taken into account