straight vs flush

[ancrob]

i dont understand why a flush is higher than a straight when a straight you need a ccertain 5 cards but in the other hand a flush you could use any of the 13 same suit cards. what is your opinion?

Updated Feb 2018:

Card rankings are based on the level of difficulty in getting that particular hand. There are far more possibilities for straights than there are for flushes. There are some great examples and explanations you can read in the posts below. This is a great example:

You hold 89h.

The cards that can help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

But the cards that help you make a flush are:

A234567TJQK of hearts only.

This is a good source for poker odds:

Poker Odds for Dummies

 

[Tammy]

You have more card combinations to make a straight, since they do not have to be of the same suit. You have only 13 outs to make any flush. That is why a flush is higher in value.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Look at it this way...

You hold 89h.

The cards that can help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

But the cards that help you make a flush are:
A234567TJQK of hearts only.

In a large sample of hands where 7 cards are dealt ( like in a hand of holdem or stud) you will see 2 flushes for every three straights more or less.

That said.. counter intuitively after a flop a hand with 4 to a straight has a slightly worse chance of seeing the straight than 4 to a flush has of seeing a flush. (8 outs vs. 9)

 

[trucker103]

just the way it is as said way more options too hit str8 than flush usually u get paid off more with flush also . so gl at the tables and welcome to cards chat

 

[KyleJRM]

I agree that when I first started playing, it seemed counterintuitive to me that a straight was more likely than a flush. But it be true

 

[Madsaac]

Have to believe you....as said before

Flop a straight draw = 8outs
Flop a flush draw = 9outs

 

[Dreams of Tragedy]

I was the same way when I first started out....(I thought a straight beat a flush when I first started playing poker) But I guess that you can get a straight easyer then a flush

 

[SavagePenguin]

I used to think the same thing as the OP. Straights *seemed* like they'd be harder to get than flushes, but that's not the case.

If you do the math there are:
1,098,240 ways to make one pair
123,552 ways to make two pair
54,912 ways to make three of a kind
10,200 ways to make a straight
5,108 ways to make a flush
3,744 ways to make a full house
624 to make four of a kind
36 ways to make a straight flush
4 ways to make a royal flush

I like how cAPSLOCK puts it:

Look at it this way...

You hold 89h.

The cards that can help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

But the cards that help you make a flush are:
A234567TJQK of hearts only.

 

[Moila]

The statistic are right specially for 5 card classic poker, but they are biased by taking into account any final combination of 5 straight sequence and dont take into acciunt different stage.

If you got 4 suited you got more chance of getting a 5th than getting the 5th of a straight even more if there is a missing connector.
So those hand (built out of missing connector) once discarded are more rare.


Example you got 3 4 6 7 there is only 4 such card that would give you a straight
While the same card all suited got at best 9 other cards possibilities.
If you discard all those odd the straight would become way more rare then flush.
The statistuc are lying because they don't take into account the progression of the game.
They only sort the amount of possible result out of a draw of 5 cards.


Technically speaking all straight are unique, compare the oods of getting a royal straiht (not flush) vs a flush?
You can get a royal flush from only 5 cards of each colors but can get flush out of any 5 cards of the deck.
There is 25% of the deck for flush
But less than 20% chance of getting unsuited royal straight.
Also considering that half of the cards valide for a straight are more likely to be discarded... someone with a 4 and 9 suited ?
Got less chance to get a straight then a flush.
Those hands are therefor discarded and statitic for straight should be at least be halved down to reflect their true in game worth.

 

[Moila]

I used to think the same thing as the OP. Straights *seemed* like they'd be harder to get than flushes, but that's not the case.

If you do the math there are:
1,098,240 ways to make one pair
123,552 ways to make two pair
54,912 ways to make three of a kind
10,200 ways to make a straight
5,108 ways to make a flush
3,744 ways to make a full house
624 to make four of a kind
36 ways to make a straight flush
4 ways to make a royal flush

I like how cAPSLOCK puts it:

Yes but those stats take into account only a five draw out of 52deck


Those are raw data and biased.


If you play straight poker no discard well that's the odds.
But if you go texas hold'em...
That's another matter.
All the missing low connectors got less chances.
Example 4&8 what are the odd?
Of the 5 card to get 3 that gonna fill the straight? Vs the odds of getting a flush of those same cards.


You got less chance of getting straight out of 4s and less or Q and above than from 5s to 10s
And finally the wining straight vs loosing... the upper hand is winning over the lower end so more then half the straight sequence are just discarded and never seen.
Because the odd is sequencial based unlike for flush.
If you draw a 5 of heart... there is 32 cards of the 51 remaining that can allow to get a straight; vs 12 out of 51 for flush.
The sequence odd give more chance up front but that goes down.
If you got 2 3 4 6 of heart what are the odds of getting a flush vs a straight?
You still got 9 out of 48 for the flush but the straight is down to 4 cards out of 48.
So if you drop half of the odd for those missing connectors .
Flush are more commun.


I think it should be added straight of odd or even just to increase the chance of straight more appart from the flush and make it obvious that flush is better.
If you had sequences of...
2 4 6 8 10 Q A
And
A 3 5 7 9 J K
After taking into account the the discarded missing connector you get a clearly better odd vs flush and still less better vs 3 of a kind.

 

[whyndam]

You hold 89h.

The cards that can help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

But the cards that help you make a flush are:

A234567TJQK of hearts only.

This is a good source for poker odds:

It's actually a little more complicated than this though since any of the cards that help to make a flush will create a flush, but only certain cards that help to make a straight will make a straight. This is actually more correct:

You hold 89h.

The cards that may help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

But the cards that will make a flush are:

A234567TJQK of hearts.

I think this is why so many people question the value of a straight vs a flush. As long as I flop three hearts cards I make a flush here, but with a straight if I flop for example 6, 7, J and Q from your list, I actually don't make my straight, even though I drew even more cards that supposedly help me.

 

[James24543]

You have 2 suited cards. You have 11 outs to make a flush (not taking into account the suited cards of what you have other players are holding).


For a straight for example you have a 5,6. You can make a up and down straight with 2,3,4 or 7,8,9. You have 24 outs to make a straight (not taking into account the cards of what other players are holding.)

You still have more outs with a wheel (A-5) or broad way (10-A). You will have 12 outs (not taking into account the cards of what other players are holding).

 

[abyk]

more odds to land a straight than a flush, simple as that

 

[whyndam]

You have 2 suited cards. You have 11 outs to make a flush (not taking into account the suited cards of what you have other players are holding).

For a straight for example you have a 5,6. You can make a up and down straight with 2,3,4 or 7,8,9. You have 24 outs to make a straight (not taking into account the cards of what other players are holding.)

You're totally missing the point by using the word 'out' in such a nonchalant way. An out for a flush is not the same as an out for a straight. Seriously, read my post above again carefully and you'll get it, you clearly didn't.

more odds to land a straight than a flush, simple as that

There are actually higher odds of having a chance to make a straight with one card needed, but there are higher odds to make a flush with one card needed. Like I said in my previous post, it's nowhere near as simple as made out in the posts above.

 

[Taurildo]

because odds are better to get flush

 

[MatMackenz]

It's actually a little more complicated than this though since any of the cards that help to make a flush will create a flush, but only certain cards that help to make a straight will make a straight. This is actually more correct:

You hold 89h.

The cards that may help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

But the cards that will make a flush are:

A234567TJQK of hearts.

I think this is why so many people question the value of a straight vs a flush. As long as I flop three hearts cards I make a flush here, but with a straight if I flop for example 6, 7, J and Q from your list, I actually don't make my straight, even though I drew even more cards that supposedly help me.

The hearts will not make our flush as we only hold 2 cards and need 5 to make a flush. We have 11 cards to improve then 10 card, then 9 cards to make the flush.

Its a little more complex with straights first we have 28 cards that improve closer to a straight, then depending on the card, we have 16 card to improve if the next card is connected like a T or 7, and 12 for J or 6 and 8 for Q or 5. Then it will be either 4 cards for the gutter or 8 cards for the Open ender to complete the straight.

 

[James24543]

You're totally missing the point by using the word 'out' in such a nonchalant way. An out for a flush is not the same as an out for a straight. Seriously, read my post above again carefully and you'll get it, you clearly didn't.

This should make things clearer.

Counting Your Outs

"Before you can begin to calculate your poker odds you need to know your “outs”. An out is a card which will make your hand. For example, if you are on a flush draw with four hearts in your hand, then there will be nine hearts (outs) remaining in the deck to give you a flush. Remember there are thirteen cards in a suit, so this is easily worked out; 13 – 4 = 9."

http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/drawing-odds/
​

 

[whyndam]

The hearts will not make our flush as we only hold 2 cards and need 5 to make a flush. We have 11 cards to improve then 10 card, then 9 cards to make the flush.

How does having 2 heart hards and then getting three more heart cards not make 5??

This should make things clearer.

Counting Your Outs

"Before you can begin to calculate your poker odds you need to know your “outs”. An out is a card which will make your hand. For example, if you are on a flush draw with four hearts in your hand, then there will be nine hearts (outs) remaining in the deck to give you a flush. Remember there are thirteen cards in a suit, so this is easily worked out; 13 – 4 = 9."​

You didn't even mention straights....it's straights where outs are not so simple. Seriously just re-read my first comment and you'll get it.

OK I'll take you through the example step by step so you get it but I doubt you'll even read it.

We hold 89h.
The cards that may help you make a straight are:
7777TTTT6666JJJJ5555QQQQ

The flop is 672. I need one card to make my straight so then the turn comes a J which helps me right? Then the River comes a Q which also helps me right? But oops they helped me but I still didn't make my straight...so much for those "OUTS"...

That can NEVER happen with a flush since all flush cards help to make a flush and thus all outs are created equal only for a flush. Also if on the flop there are two cards for a straight and two cards for a flush then the flush is much better odds because it's more likely to come up, as explained above, AND it's worth more than a straight...

Its a little more complex with straights first we have 28 cards that improve closer to a straight, then depending on the card, we have 16 card to improve if the next card is connected like a T or 7, and 12 for J or 6 and 8 for Q or 5. Then it will be either 4 cards for the gutter or 8 cards for the Open ender to complete the straight.

Yes that's why I said it's easier to have a chance to make a straight on pre-flop, but on the flop if you have a chance to make a straight or a flush then the flush is much better because it's more likely to get the final card on the turn or the river and also beats a straight anyway. I seem to have to keep repeating myself.

 

[PickyBronco1]

Straight vs Flush

When I first started playing I thought the same but as time goes on you realize why its higher on the ranking

 

[whyndam]

They seem to have it all figured out in this old thread here. Check posts from danny021 onwards https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/flush-straight-122979/