Question about HOH

[mischman]

If this is a total retard post, oh well.

I just got HoH1. Im on about page 45 and understand most of it.

He says Tight/conservative played play less hands, is he right?
OBV- Makes sense and is true

He says Loose/maniac playrs play more hands, is he right?
OBV- Makes sense and is true


Now....
He also says that loose players win big pots and tight players win small pots.

How is that possible? It just doesnt seem to make sense that a tight player would ever win then.

If a tight player plays 10% of the hands and a loose player plays 90% of hands. And if a tight player wins small pots, and a loose player wins big pots. Say the small pots are 1000 chips and the big pots are 9000 chips. if we play a 100 pots......


This just isnt clicking in my head, maybe im a total retard.

Please reply if you have the smallest bit of advice

 

[calibanboy]

A loose player will also loose big pots and hence be eliminated long before the tight player ( I have lots of caveats to this this statement - but you get the idea ).

 

[alan1983]

A tight player will be winning a huge percentage of the pots hes in but hell rarely ever get paid off big.

The lag player will win a small percentage of his numerous hands but when he hits big hell get paid off. And hell often lose big too.

 

[Tammy]

A loose player will also loose big pots and hence be eliminated long before the tight player ( I have lots of caveats to this this statement - but you get the idea ).

This.^^^ And, if the other players at the table have picked up on tight player's line, then they are more likely to get out of the way when they make any kind of raises. Generally a raise of any kind from a tight player means, "I HAVE A BIG HAND", therefore resulting in a fold from anyone who has been paying attention to their style of play when they have a mediocre hand. A tight player will often times simply pick up the blinds due to their image. A loose player will get more calls (resulting in a bigger pot) due to their image.

 

[mischman]

A loose player will also loose big pots and hence be eliminated long before the tight player ( I have lots of caveats to this this statement - but you get the idea ).

A tight player will be winning a huge percentage of the pots hes in but hell rarely ever get paid off big.

The lag player will win a small percentage of his numerous hands but when he hits big hell get paid off. And hell often lose big too.

This.^^^ And, if the other players at the table have picked up on tight player's line, then they are more likely to get out of the way when they make any kind of raises. Generally a raise of any kind from a tight player means, "I HAVE A BIG HAND",
-DUH- Not that big of a retard therefore resulting in a fold from anyone who has been paying attention to their style of play when they have a mediocre hand. A tight player will often times simply pick up the blinds due to their image. A loose player will get more calls (resulting in a bigger pot) due to their image.

How is it possible for a tight player to win? If he hardly plays a hand and wins small pots when he does

 

[Tammy]

How is it possible for a tight player to win? If he hardly plays a hand and wins small pots when he does

Good question. I guess it goes to show the importance of mixing up your play. Knowing when to tighten up and when to loosen it up to keep your opponents guessing. If you only ever play one way, or one style, any decent player will get a read on you, thus making it less profitable for you.

 

[tenbob]

Calibanboy has it in one. HoH vol I, is mainly based on the deep stacked early stages of the game, tight players tend to get less action, naturally, and they are more difficuly to bust, hence they win smaller pots. Loose players however get more action, and while the pots they win are bigger, so are the pots they lose, so they are either big stacked by the mid stages or busto, usually busto.

The tight table image that you form in this early stage of the game, should open up your potential of winning the blinds and antes at the later stages of the game when it actually matters much more.

Hope this makes sense Misch.

 

[mischman]

Calibanboy has it in one. HoH vol I, is mainly based on the deep stacked early stages of the game, tight players tend to get less action, naturally, and they are more difficuly to bust, hence they win smaller pots. Loose players however get more action, and while the pots they win are bigger, so are the pots they lose, so they are either big stacked by the mid stages or busto, usually busto.

The tight table image that you form in this early stage of the game, should open up your potential of winning the blinds and antes at the later stages of the game when it actually matters much more.

Hope this makes sense Misch.

I see how a TAG player would win. I see how a LAG coudl lose, they win pots but lose big pots. Seems like a Tag would win most of the time and a Tight Rock would never win

 

[tenbob]

Tight rocks tend not to place very high in MTT's , while they might occasionally double up early against a LAG, by the mid stages the gig is usually up, and observant players will hammer on their blinds. Youll usually find them whilttled away by the late stages.

 

[mischman]

Thanks TB!


Mischa #9 says:
i dont see how a rock can win
Tenbob says:
a rock usually dosnt
Mischa #9 says:
so then its true, tight players win small pots and less pots?
Tenbob says:
yes
Mischa #9 says:
then in theory, they never will win?
Tenbob says:
well it depends
Tenbob says:
if a tight player BECOMES a LAG at the approiate stage of the tournament then he can be a winning player
Mischa #9 says:
obv
Tenbob says:
the tight image from earlier becomes important for stealing
Mischa #9 says:
obv
Tenbob says:
but remaining tight is a recipie for disaster
Mischa #9 says:
but if someone was a total rock, didnt change, in theory he never wins cause he plays less hands and the hands he does play are small?
Tenbob says:
yer
Tenbob says:
rocks are predictable players as well
Mischa #9 says:
in theory, the LAGs and changable players will always win?
Tenbob says:
yes
Mischa #9 says:
Can i crop this MSN convo and post it in the thread?
Tenbob says:
changing gears in tournaments is one of the most important concepts to understand in MTTs
Tenbob says:
yer post away

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Note that at some point early in the book (I think you should have already read it actually), Harrington states that, somewhat paradoxically, we stand to win the most when we play the opposite of our 'default' style.

There's a lesson here somewhere. Don't treat a book as a series of different strategies and tactics - you're only really learning when you discover how everything that's been stated 'comes together', so to speak.

 

[mischman]

Note that at some point early in the book (I think you should have already read it actually), Harrington states that, somewhat paradoxically, we stand to win the most when we play the opposite of our 'default' style.

There's a lesson here somewhere. Don't treat a book as a series of different strategies and tactics - you're only really learning when you discover how everything that's been stated 'comes together', so to speak.

Tenbob > you.

your losing your foothold

 

[robwhufc]

Tenbob > you.

your losing your foothold

It's you're, not your.

The basic lesson to learn then if you now know that tight players dont win big hands is "you've got to give action to get action". Play more hands when the blinds are low, don't be afraid to get caught out bluffing, and try and create a loosish image, but be in control and play tighter / smarter when the blinds jack up a bit. If you're on a mega-cold run of cards, play the odd rag hand to remind everyone you're there, otherwise when you do eventually get bullets, everyone will autofold to your raise. In the CC games there are players that i'd never get into a pot with because they play so tight, and subsequently they never get any chips off me (everyone else gets them instead).

 

[mischman]

Good post ROb, + rep(and TB too)

 

[Beavis68]

How is it possible for a tight player to win? If he hardly plays a hand and wins small pots when he does

Overly tight players dont win that often.

 

[Jack Daniels]

I've removed the recent argumentative posts as they either didn't add value or essentially repeated responses from above them, but more importantly were getting out of hand and inflammatory.

A strong or opinionated debate is fine, but keep it civil. The OP questions about the HoH book are still relevant to this discussion, so have at it.