Poker terms - what is a hero call?

[fundiver199]

If you have watched poker streams, you have likely heard the term "hero call", but what exactly is it? Wikipedia defines it as "calling when a player has a relatively weak hand but suspects their opponent may be bluffing". When we call on the early streets, we usually have some chance to improve, so even though we might have a relatively weak hand, its not always a hero call.

If for instance we have 76 on a board of K54, our hand is almost certainly not best right now, but we have 8 outs to make a straight, so when we call, its not a hero call but a call in order to draw and realise our equity. Or if we have A5 on the same board of K54 and face a very small bet like 20% pot, its also not a hero call but more like a pot odds based call, where sometimes we are ahead already, and other times we are getting decent odds to try to improve to two pair or trips.

The most pure situation for hero calling is on the river, where we can not improve and only call, because we think, our opponent might be bluffing. I am mostly a tournament player, but now and then I play a few cash game hands as well. The following hands are all from the 25NL BLITZ (fast fold) cash game on ACR and happened within 20 minutes this afternoon. And in all the hands my opponents made big hero calls on the river, which unfortunately for them were all failed hero calls.

If I am to give one tip to new players in micro or low stakes games like this one, then it is to not get to deep into hero calling, unless you have some solid information about the opponent. The reason being, that typically people are not bluffing nearly as much, as you might think. And on the other side dont get to much into bluffing, if you are playing in games, where people love to make big hero calls. Instead you should go more after thin value, as I did in some of these hands. Following these three simple guidelines will likely improve your results, if you are currently struggling in micro or low stakes games

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[Luvepoker]

Great post. I totally agree with you. Especially on the lower stakes not bluffing enough.

I have become pretty good at picking them off. Wrong many times as well but I think I do much better than most. The reason I am good at it is I look at the hand as played and ask my self does the play makes sense and what range of hands he could have I beat. I was able to block the last 2 hands what you had and played along. Both there calls I would not have made.

While I can see his call with A9 on the flop and turn with 2nd pair the river call was throwing money away. All he could hope for was you were on a missed flush draw but when you look at he hand you could have had as player he needs to realize he is not good. AKdd hits top pair on the river as would KQdd and KTdd. AJdd would have been played this was as well as KJdd. QTdd would be a straight here as well. Adding in the off suite hands just makes his 3rd pair junk on to many spots to call that river.

Then the guy calling your Kings river bet on the river. OMG what was he thinking. 3rd pair 4 kicker. I had you on over cards most likely with a flush draw but you could have flopped the flush as well. Calling you river all in was not smart.

Well played on all 3 sir.

 

[fundiver199]

I have become pretty good at picking them off. Wrong many times as well but I think I do much better than most. The reason I am good at it is I look at the hand as played and ask my self does the play makes sense and what range of hands he could have I beat. I was able to block the last 2 hands what you had and played along. Both there calls I would not have made.

Obviously I am not saying, that we should never call the river with a bluff catcher. But the situations to do it is usually, if we and/or the opponent has shown some weakness during the hand. When someone has raised preflop and bet every single street postflop, more often than not it tends to be for value at the lower stakes.

While I can see his call with A9 on the flop and turn with 2nd pair the river call was throwing money away. All he could hope for was you were on a missed flush draw but when you look at he hand you could have had as player he needs to realize he is not good. AKdd hits top pair on the river as would KQdd and KTdd. AJdd would have been played this was as well as KJdd. QTdd would be a straight here as well. Adding in the off suite hands just makes his 3rd pair junk on to many spots to call that river.

I agree, the A9 call is the least bad of the three but still not a great call.

Then the guy calling your Kings river bet on the river. OMG what was he thinking. 3rd pair 4 kicker. I had you on over cards most likely with a flush draw but you could have flopped the flush as well. Calling you river all in was not smart.

I was hoping to get called by a worse two pair hand of course, but I was also chocked to see something as weak as 54. I guess, you can argue, that calling with 54 or JJ is kind of the same thing, since I am probably not value betting anything worse than JJ. But he did not even block the flush or anything, so definitely a real hero call putting me on AK/AQ types of hands, that just fired all the way down

 

[pirateglenn]

EPT San Remo 2008 - Jason Mercier - for me still one of the best hero calls and this link describes in detail from Jason his thought process.

I love this play.

 

[fundiver199]

EPT San Remo 2008 - Jason Mercier - for me still one of the best hero calls and this link describes in detail from Jason his thought process.

For me there are two elements, which makes this a good hero call. First Jason had shown weakness by checking back the flop as the preflop raiser, which obviously open the door for the opponent to bluff. So even now in 2024 this is a situation, where you should often be prepared to get a little sticky on the turn and river to pick off the bluffs, you might have induced.

The other factor is, that the opponent overbet the turn, which polarized him to having at least two pair or nothing. And of course its much easier to have nothing than to have at least two pair, so its easy for him to end up overbluffing. Its one of those situations, where even though a larger size should make people fold more often, actually the bluff might have had a better chance of getting through, if he had bet smaller to make his hand look more like a top pair type of holding.

 

[pirateglenn]

it was the overbet that made Jason call him - as soon as that happened he sensed weakness - great play

 

[maronza1]

You were involved with the fish on those hands lol

 

[fundiver199]

In this hand I am the one, who made a failed hero call. The hand is from the same 25NL BLIZT cash game on ACR, and it was the first hand of the session with no reads on the opponent. I kind of wanted to fold both on the turn and the river but decided to make an "information" call, since I am not a regular in this game. Basically just wanted to confirm, that when people open UTG, bet the flop on a A high board, bet full pot on the turn and then also bet relatively big on the river, then top pair is almost never good, not even with top kicker. And sure enough it was not good this time either.

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[puzzlefish]

In this hand I am the one, who made a failed hero call. The hand is from the same 25NL BLIZT cash game on ACR, and it was the first hand of the session with no reads on the opponent. I kind of wanted to fold both on the turn and the river but decided to make an "information" call, since I am not a regular in this game. Basically just wanted to confirm, that when people open UTG, bet the flop on a A high board, bet full pot on the turn and then also bet relatively big on the river, then top pair is almost never good, not even with top kicker. And sure enough it was not good this time either.

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25NL is pretty fun to play. There are actually more bluffs there. I don't think you can make a sweeping statement that the way this person played would be the way everybody would play at those stakes, but given that person's stack size it looks like they know what they are doing.

 

[fundiver199]

But given that person's stack size it looks like they know what they are doing.

Actually u can buy in for 120 BB at BLITZ, so he was sitting on a broken stack not using auto top-up. And of course A6 offsuit is not an open UTG, so pretty clearly not a strong winning player.

 

[puzzlefish]

Actually u can buy in for 120 BB at BLITZ, so he was sitting on a broken stack not using auto top-up. And of course A6 offsuit is not an open UTG, so pretty clearly not a strong winning player.

Are we looking at the same hand? He has $72.75 and you have $30 at $0.10/$0.25. And it is a 6 player table.

 

[fundiver199]

Are we looking at the same hand? He has $72.75 and you have $30 at $0.10/$0.25. And it is a 6 player table.

You are right. I messed it up with another hand. But A6 offsuit from UTG is still way to loose. So at least that is a fish tell 😀

 

[puzzlefish]

You are right. I messed it up with another hand. But A6 offsuit from UTG is still way to loose. So at least that is a fish tell 😀

Could definitely be fishy versus the expected range, but once he hits it's played well enough for you to look him up.

 

[Claudiunm]

If you have watched poker streams, you have likely heard the term "hero call", but what exactly is it? Wikipedia defines it as "calling when a player has a relatively weak hand but suspects their opponent may be bluffing". When we call on the early streets, we usually have some chance to improve, so even though we might have a relatively weak hand, its not always a hero call.

If for instance we have 76 on a board of K54, our hand is almost certainly not best right now, but we have 8 outs to make a straight, so when we call, its not a hero call but a call in order to draw and realise our equity. Or if we have A5 on the same board of K54 and face a very small bet like 20% pot, its also not a hero call but more like a pot odds based call, where sometimes we are ahead already, and other times we are getting decent odds to try to improve to two pair or trips.

The most pure situation for hero calling is on the river, where we can not improve and only call, because we think, our opponent might be bluffing. I am mostly a tournament player, but now and then I play a few cash game hands as well. The following hands are all from the 25NL BLITZ (fast fold) cash game on ACR and happened within 20 minutes this afternoon. And in all the hands my opponents made big hero calls on the river, which unfortunately for them were all failed hero calls.

If I am to give one tip to new players in micro or low stakes games like this one, then it is to not get to deep into hero calling, unless you have some solid information about the opponent. The reason being, that typically people are not bluffing nearly as much, as you might think. And on the other side dont get to much into bluffing, if you are playing in games, where people love to make big hero calls. Instead you should go more after thin value, as I did in some of these hands. Following these three simple guidelines will likely improve your results, if you are currently struggling in micro or low stakes games

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Man, this thread was very instructive for me. The funny thing is that I was wondering how the villain could have been so innocent, especially in the hands where you had KK and the flush draw. But the truth is that if we are not concentrated, during the heat of the real game we end up making these mistakes too. For me, the lesson is to stay focused so as not to fall into these traps.

 

[pentazepam]

 

[fundiver199]

View attachment 368975

Except that most likely Robbi called, because she misread her hand and thought, she had bottom pair

 

[pentazepam]

Except that most likely Robbi called, because she misread her hand and thought, she had bottom pair

Haven't you heard about the vibrating butt plug they use to communicate and cheat?

Glamorous poker star accused of using 'hidden vibrator' to win £240,000 hand

Hidden vibrating devices have been at the centre of a cheating scandal in chess in recent weeks and now they've rocked yet another sport, this time a high-stakes poker game

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[fundiver199]

Haven't you heard about the vibrating butt plug they use to communicate and cheat?

Nah I dont think, any cheating took place during that stream. The strongest indication was this backroom guy, who stole chips from Robbi and had apparently had the furniture inside the room rearranged a few weeks earlier. But at the end of the day nobody were able to point to other hands during the 3 streams, where Robbi appeared, where it seemed like, she or anyone else had information.

And even more importantly the footage from the time, where they ran the board out twice, strongly indicate, that she thought, she had bottom pair. The first river card dubble paired the board, and Garrett said "You have this one" to which she applied "I dont think so". The second river card was an A, and Robbi looked annoyed, when it hit. Both these reactions make sense, if she thought, she had bottom pair, because then she got counterfeited on one board, and the nut flushdraw got there on the other. But if she knew, she had J high, then both cards changed nothing, and she would not have reacted like this.

 

[fundiver199]

Additionally when the cards had been revealed, and Garrett was trying to understand, what had just happened, he asked Robbi, why she called. Robbi instantly replied "because I thought, you had A high", which I think was a spontaneous and honest reply, because she had called mistakenly thinking, she could beat A high (and any other draw). However since she actually only had J high, this answer made no sense and further increased Garretts suspicion, something fishy was going on.

 

[dreamer13]

A hero call is when you call the river with a weak hand and win at showdown. A hero call is made when your opponent may have a bad hand that you will beat. To make a good hero call, you need to understand your opponent well.

 

[pentazepam]

Additionally when the cards had been revealed, and Garrett was trying to understand, what had just happened, he asked Robbi, why she called. Robbi instantly replied "because I thought, you had A high", which I think was a spontaneous and honest reply, because she had called mistakenly thinking, she could beat A high (and any other draw). However since she actually only had J high, this answer made no sense and further increased Garretts suspicion, something fishy was going on.

Do you have a photographic memory?

 

[fundiver199]

Do you have a photographic memory?

I watched a video on Youtube some time after the controversy broke out, which highlighted these points. And that video pretty much convinced me, that a misread is by far the most likely explanation for, what happened

 

[pentazepam]

I watched a video on Youtube some time after the controversy broke out, which highlighted these points. And that video pretty much convinced me, that a misread is by far the most likely explanation for, what happened

Yes, they would probably choose other less suspicious hands and situations if they had some cheating going on.

Unless the butt plug went on by mistake or by malfunction/error.

 

[fundiver199]

Yes, they would probably choose other less suspicious hands and situations if they had some cheating going on.

Of course cheaters are not always very intelligent. But there would for sure be many better spots to pick, especially given that J4 only had like a 55/45 equity edge over Garretts combodraw on the turn. Most commonly running it twice would have resulted in a chopped pot, and then the whole scandal would likely not have happened.

 

[AKQ]

If you have watched poker streams, you have likely heard the term "hero call", but what exactly is it? Wikipedia defines it as "calling when a player has a relatively weak hand but suspects their opponent may be bluffing". When we call on the early streets, we usually have some chance to improve, so even though we might have a relatively weak hand, its not always a hero call.

If for instance we have 76 on a board of K54, our hand is almost certainly not best right now, but we have 8 outs to make a straight, so when we call, its not a hero call but a call in order to draw and realise our equity. Or if we have A5 on the same board of K54 and face a very small bet like 20% pot, its also not a hero call but more like a pot odds based call, where sometimes we are ahead already, and other times we are getting decent odds to try to improve to two pair or trips.

The most pure situation for hero calling is on the river, where we can not improve and only call, because we think, our opponent might be bluffing. I am mostly a tournament player, but now and then I play a few cash game hands as well. The following hands are all from the 25NL BLITZ (fast fold) cash game on ACR and happened within 20 minutes this afternoon. And in all the hands my opponents made big hero calls on the river, which unfortunately for them were all failed hero calls.

If I am to give one tip to new players in micro or low stakes games like this one, then it is to not get to deep into hero calling, unless you have some solid information about the opponent. The reason being, that typically people are not bluffing nearly as much, as you might think. And on the other side dont get to much into bluffing, if you are playing in games, where people love to make big hero calls. Instead you should go more after thin value, as I did in some of these hands. Following these three simple guidelines will likely improve your results, if you are currently struggling in micro or low stakes games

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just an fyi

Good BB defense strategy is becoming normal
BB's are taking pots now more than ever in previous history

Lately Population has increased there frequency of calls preflop/range ,
increase of floats with an over and backdoor possibilities on flops
more BB river bluffs on favorable boards , frequency increase+ when against a lag button opponent checking turn after cbetting

so what I'm saying is The term hero call is becoming outdated and redundant to modern theory