Learning Poker Together Part 5: To call or not to call?

[Luvepoker]

To call or not to call?
One of the toughest spots for me at the moment is when I am in the hand and someone on the flop jams their small stack in. Should I call or fold. For the record I folded this hand 1st to act. While QhTd is not a bad hand it is not that good 9 handed in this position and the table had been active with 3 bet jams. But for the question in this post we will pretend I am in the hand with these 2 cards.
HJ open limped with his 6BB stack and SB called 11.5 BB stack and BB checked their option with 4.5BB behind. We are late in a turbo event and just in the money. Blinds are 200/400 We will play the QhTd in the SB. With 1560 in the pot the flop comes 4c 5s 7d. The Sb checks and the BB instantly jams in 1896 bringing the pot to 3456 and Hj folds. We have no read on the BB by the way.

Questions
1) So what are your thoughts here?
2) So do we call or fold here.?
3) Would you call if the hand was QdTd?
4) Would you call Ace high with an over say AT?

Not that it matters but he ended up showing J4 off for 3rd pair.

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[Luvepoker]

1) So we missed the flop but we do have 2 over cards. We need to call 1896 to win 5352 so we need 35.4% equity to make the call here profitable. I would assume he would have jammed and bigger pair 88+ all suited Broadway and most off suit as well. At least A7s+ and A9+ so we would have 39.4% equity here. But would he jam them all? I don’t think so. Lets assume he has at the least a pair+ or open ender straight draw. Or one over pair. No under pairs. We have only 20.2% equity to call. Now lets make it in any ace high with an over to the board we need 39.5%. Now lets say he had Ac5c we would only have 21.9% equity. What if he only had the open ender? We would have 73.5% equity. While there are some good scenarios for us to make a call, its also a bit of wishful thinking. We really need him to jam everything to make it a profitable call. Just taking out hand with a 2 and 3 with one over card not a ace we then only have 33.22% equity. What id we had a ace high? AhTd we would have about 42% equity if they jammed everything.
2) Based on my read and the fact I don’t believe we have the correct equity in the hand, I fold here.
3) While the suitedness does add back door flush possibilities I still fold here.
4) Math wise we should call here. We have the correct odds and we may even be ahead here. Now would I honestly call here? I don’t know but going forward I may really need to think about calling more depending on the player type.

 

[eetenor]

ICM applies in this spot and chips lost are worth more than chips won--A key point when we are thinking of these spots is --can I beat their best hands--So the suited QT has more equity because it beats sets and straights so if you were going to call chip ev instead of icm make it suited.
Another consideration is the stack size of the Villain while this is all-in it is only 4.5bb the V has no need of other betting options they can shove their entire range and not be making a mistake when 3 way.

 

[Luvepoker]

ICM applies in this spot and chips lost are worth more than chips won--A key point when we are thinking of these spots is --can I beat their best hands--So the suited QT has more equity because it beats sets and straights so if you were going to call chip ev instead of icm make it suited.
Another consideration is the stack size of the Villain while this is all-in it is only 4.5bb the V has no need of other betting options they can shove their entire range and not be making a mistake when 3 way.

I agree and love his play here. He has just enough to make it not so simple of a call and he put the HJ in a thought spot if he has only overs. With a player behind him he really needs to play a bit tighter when the BB jams.

 

[fundiver199]

1) So what are your thoughts here?

My thoughts are, that if we chose to see a flop rather than jam preflop, then it has to be because, we are not always stacking off postflop.

2) So do we call or fold here.?

Fold. The issue here is, we are even behind to some of their bluffs, that could be A high or K high, and we dont have any kind of draw. We could also be drawing completely dead, if they flopped a straight or a set and almost dead, if they flopped two pair. Our overcards are not always going to be live, so we cant see this as having 6 outs.

3) Would you call if the hand was QdTd?

No a BDFD does not add enough equity for me to call this off.

4) Would you call Ace high with an over say AT?

That would definitely be much closer, since we might be ahead of more of their bluffs like A6, K6 etc. However I would also have been more inclined to jam ATo preflop, so I probably would not be here with a hand that strong.

 

[Luvepoker]

1) So what are your thoughts here?

My thoughts are, that if we chose to see a flop rather than jam preflop, then it has to be because, we are not always stacking off postflop.

2) So do we call or fold here.?

Fold. The issue here is, we are even behind to some of their bluffs, that could be A high or K high, and we dont have any kind of draw. We could also be drawing completely dead, if they flopped a straight or a set and almost dead, if they flopped two pair. Our overcards are not always going to be live, so we cant see this as having 6 outs.

3) Would you call if the hand was QdTd?

No a BDFD does not add enough equity for me to call this off.

4) Would you call Ace high with an over say AT?

That would definitely be much closer, since we might be ahead of more of their bluffs like A6, K6 etc. However I would also have been more inclined to jam ATo preflop, so I probably would not be here with a hand that strong.

Really love when you analyze these. I usually jam pre flop if I was playing the hand, but I am trying to think about future game more.
thanks to you.

I see so many people call here and never really was sure it was smart play; I am with you on folded QT suited or not. 6 outs are not enough and as you said we can be drawing dead.

AT You and I agree again. I would have jammed more likely than anything here. It's too strong to call and if we do and even if we hit the ace, we most likely won't get paid with the ace on the board. I just don't see flatting as profitable as Jamming would be preflop on this one.

 

[Mr.$t0k]

I think we should fold as the flop has completely suited the opponent and we have no hope of collecting the nuts so we fold

 

[ming73098]

I think i should fold