How many bad beats is normal?

[FishwivChips]

Hi,

I'm a relatively new poker player (just over a year or so) and try to keep an open mind, constantly looking for new ways to improve my game. I'm currently playing most of my poker on poker stars but am running into bad beats rather more than i feel is comfortable/acceptable. I wont bore you with specific examples because i feel they have been done to death on here.

Can anyone shine some light on this for me? If you are playing 4 hours of poker a day multi-tabling on say 4 tables at a time, what a bad beat average? I understand that luck and variance is a part of poker that we all must accept but its getting to a point now where any wins I am having are usually reversed by a good string of bad beats. I'm kind of treading water if you will.

The more I try and grow my knowledge of the game by reading books and listening to advice from the pros the more frustrated I become. The advice I receive (most of it anyway) simply isn't relevant at lower steaks. I truly believe any pro would struggle at lower steaks because (as much as i hate this term) donkeys are just so unpredictable and as for putting them on a range FORGET ABOUT IT!

I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on this.

 

[thatguy6793]

I totally understand you're problem and feel your pain. I don't think there's a good average for the amount of bad beats you should have because I don't think it's ever that simple, but if I had to say maybe like 10-20% for the amount your playing (and that's really just a guess from some of my own experiences). As far as the low stakes is concerned though I think it's safe to say that the variance is multiplied because of the donks that raise every hand even with hands like 72o which magically hit four of a kind or something stupid like that and really there's no way around this, except play a little tighter and more aggressive with your best hands and scare them off the pot but really that rarely works either. Just keep playing the premium hands aggressive and eventually you should start seeing an improvement especially once you move up to higher stakes.

 

[okeedokalee]

You have to evaluate your own play.
Many times when people cry bad beat, they have played the hand badly themselves.

 

[frnandoh]

hahaha


Bad beats are normal, but loosing ever is not. Playing under bankroll management and make hands reviews are the best guns against tilt after bad beats

 

[tcummo]

if you get in with the best hand you are doing good...forget about the results..

 

[freestocks]

If you have a 70% chance of winning, you have a 30% chance of losing.

 

[wagon596]

I've been playing online now going on 12 years. downswings (or variance if you prefer) can go on for months in some cases. It's a bitch no doubt, but is part of the game of poker. It's the Nature of the Beast.

 

[GRIN281289]

different happens a few days unlucky or a few hours.then try not to play for money makes no sense

 

[pokerIndaRear]

Im 28 and been playing for 10 years. Bad beats happen often at the lower stakes because of the donks. I just started playing at ignition again but I'm convince there's some inside cheating going on.

 

[Honest]

Yesterday, within the space of a few hours, I lost with AA twice all in preflop, QQ, KK, again preflop all ins. I lost numerous top pair top kicker hands (admittedly I should have adjusted my play to accomodate for the possibility of better hands) and got beat by T5o when I had AK for an all in. I lost more hands than mentioned when I was the better hand preflop, but I can't remember specifics anymore.

Nightmare day for me. I felt like my plays were good and I didn't give in to tilt.

Today I have boosted my bankroll considerably, I'm up 3 times what I lost yesterday.

In regards to what you say about pros struggling at lower stakes, I think you need to remember they've been there, and are probably adept at adjusting there play to reads and situations, as well as knowing the math.
A lot of the content that's put out is sound, and should be earning you money in the long run if you are applying it correctly.

You come across as someone who is intelligent and puts in the effort to improve, but I also have to wonder if the bad beats you are having might just be flaws in your game that you haven't rectified yet, and haven't come across in your studies.

From what I gather there are many people who know the convential way to play a winning strategy, who aren't necessarily winning players. I'd say (not that I'm anyone to listen to) that it's as much about psychology as it is math, and you've mentioned you're frustrated.

I'd guess you'll find a way, if poker continues to interest you.
All the best.

 

[FishwivChips]

Thanks for the feed back guys, its definitely appreciated.

Its good to hear that from what you say I'm suffering somewhat normal results. I'm not an arrogant player and believe that every loss I suffer is a potential opportunity to improve my own game. So I do evaluate hands and most sessions I play. Often though, i'm left scratching my head as to how better i should have played the hand (i'm not trying to say I've not room for improvement in my over all game by saying this). 9 times out of 10 I'd probably act in the exact same way because the odds were so massively in my favour. I'm not the kind of player who shoves too early and do try and get the best value out of a wining hand. When i'm forced to go all in knowing I have a monster only to get beat by a miracle its pretty soul destroying. Can anyone tell me if i should be surrendering these spots or carry on and hope for a change in my luck?

I do try and play an incredibly tight range against players I know will call/raise with trash every time (hoping to hit a miracle) but some of my results are starting to grind on me.

I do not consider a bad beat to be a time where i'm say 60/40 favourite (and am aware that if I'm forced to go all in pre-flop im leaving myself exposed for any and all eventualities). It's more when i'm an over whelming favourite and they've forced me all in post-flop and then get life savers on the turn and river! It just seems to happen a little too much for comfort.

A few examples.

Villain (UTG) 6d 3c raised 3BB, Me Ac As (BTN) 3bets his raise, Villain Shoves and im forced to call. Flop 2d 7h Jd Kd 9d ... Villain wins with a 4card flush!

Villian (MP) 9d Jc raised 3BB, Me (BB) Kc Ks 3bets, Villain calls, Flop comes Kd 7h 2h, Villain shoves and i call, turn 8h, river 10d... Villian wins with a straight.

Can anyone tell me if i should have played these in another way? I understand that these are bad beats and are a part of poker but I'm literally seeing 6 or 7 beats like this over a 4 hour period, consistently. Further more while i'm winning enough to keep my bank roll afloat I'm not exactly making huge gains, more like 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

Is this normal!?

Once again though guys I appreciate getting to pick your experienced brains and am somewhat relieved i wasn't just met with your standard barrage of abuse you seem to get on other forums!

Much love! x

 

[FishwivChips]

Sorry just to extended on my last post,

I'm seeing a lot of posts which question the legitimacy of poker stars RNG. I believe that these opinions while sometimes comforting are majorly unfounded. I did find it strange that while I was still in my bonus period I seemed to have A LOT more luck on the site and since making my bonus and depositing a couple of times that luck seems to have dried up entirely!

Any thoughts? Say it isnt so!

 

[Bobomb]

A few examples. (etc)

A player shoving this light is a goldmine. I'd get position on him, isolate him every chance I got, and look to call his crazy bets every time I have enough equity to make it profitable.

Say it isnt so!

It isn't so.

 

[Pablo9909]

Bad Beats............(DON'T GO ON TILT).

I went through Bad Beats too, WE ALL DO. We just have to learn poker. When I started I was knock out every ten minutes and I too would get upset. (Just made it worse).
As time goes by the bad beats happen less often but here is the catch, why would bad beats happen more than wins? That doesn't make any sense at all.
You cannot evaluate a bad beat on a table you are involved in because you can't possibbly know what players foled with. If even one player does or does not change their mind, the whole texture of play changes,
Solution!!!!
Watch poker on TV or go on line and watch past games. (Past performances work)
Study and know your math, IT WORKS.....
You play often enough but keep two final things in mind.
1...Relax and play within your limits.
2...Don't play to pay your mortage or rent or bills.
A relaxed rested fun player always wins soonner or later.:icon_king

 

[99TERRANCE99]

Depends on how many hours you grind a day ,if i had a dollar for each one i could build a castle

 

[kubistok]

Hi,

I'm a relatively new poker player (just over a year or so) and try to keep an open mind, constantly looking for new ways to improve my game. I'm currently playing most of my poker on poker stars but am running into bad beats rather more than i feel is comfortable/acceptable. I wont bore you with specific examples because i feel they have been done to death on here.

Can anyone shine some light on this for me? If you are playing 4 hours of poker a day multi-tabling on say 4 tables at a time, what a bad beat average? I understand that luck and variance is a part of poker that we all must accept but its getting to a point now where any wins I am having are usually reversed by a good string of bad beats. I'm kind of treading water if you will.

The more I try and grow my knowledge of the game by reading books and listening to advice from the pros the more frustrated I become. The advice I receive (most of it anyway) simply isn't relevant at lower steaks. I truly believe any pro would struggle at lower steaks because (as much as i hate this term) donkeys are just so unpredictable and as for putting them on a range FORGET ABOUT IT!

I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on this.

Bad beats are part of poker, especially at low stacks. Don't play more then 1 table at the same time. Concentrate, do statistics and you will see that it's not too bad. More tables, more hands = more bad beats.

 

[cwdignus]

I recommend you to try other poker sites, as many as possible for you in your country, maybe you adapt better in another algorithm, I spent some time without training poker star, at the moment I feel a lot of difference in their algorithm, it seems that it is more bad beat

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[TheDev]

Bad beats suck. But I don't really feel like there is an abnormal number for bad beats. If you are getting "bad beats" at a high rate than you may just be getting beat in general. Not getting bad beats. You may want to step back and take a look at how you are playing hands. Some people will think they had a bad beat when really they were behind in the hand the whole time and just played the hand poorly. If you feel like you get bad beats too often then you probably do need to reevaluate your game play to see if you are misplaying hands.

 

[run187]

Id say ten out of a hundred tourneys will result in ina bad beat KO at lower stakes..

 

[Aleksmy]

this is poker. Here you always have to be prepared for the fact that you will lose. Even with a good hand.

 

[andreypuch]

I was helped by BlackRain-crushing Microstakes. Good book. But this is poker, there's no escaping it. As the professionals say, just accept it. If necessary, take a break from poker. Poker won't get Away from you. Learning the theory.)))

 

[Daniel72]

It depends on the definition what a bad beat is.

Players who play well, receive more bad beats, because they play good cards vs. donks bad cards.


Good players should have a rule nr. 1 : don't talk about bad beats!

Especially via skype and such channels, its pure negativity and whining

Tip: stack your tables and you won't see the bad beats.

Because the random runouts of the boards is not really interesting.

If you have the better hand - before an allin showdown for instance - you have won .... even if you lose the hand

 

[okeedokalee]

Apparently it is to do with volume.
The variance will swing in your favor. Play +EV pockets and hands. You just ignore the bad hands.
If you multi table and reach say 1000,000 hands?..., you will reach +EV .
I've never understand how this happens, but I'm told this is so.

 

[DAVID KEHRER]

Everyone goes on losing streaks some longer than others. Just keep in mine when you are winning how many times you beat somebody with best hand.

 

[5KINGLEO5]

this is part of the game of poker, if you are not ready that you will lose having 80% to win, then you better not play poker))