Donk Bet / Donk Flop

[SeaRun]

The Donk Bet is fairly easy to understand, but I find using it to my advantage challenging and adds a little fun to the game.

Some hate it, some love it, and some more have this belief:

Also, some people perceive donk bets as sort of against poker etiquette. They think that "check to the raiser" is the proper, gentlemanly thing to do. This is more of a cultural thing, and has little to do with trying to play profitably.

Which I think is a load of "smelly stuff", but that's just me.

What do you think of Donk Bets? (And sorry if this has been discussed before, but one can only imagine how many hits you get by searching "donk" or "donk bet".)

Also, I've seen some references to "Donk Flop". Is this a reference to a particular type of flop (like a "dry" or "wet" flop describes a type of flop and the cards included) or is it a direct reference to a flop where someone Donk bets? Or is it something else entirely?

 

[BearPlay]

I love this question! As for the "gentlemanly" way of playing poker, I don't believe we've seen that since the Wild West

IMO there are two types of donkeys: The Draw Lovers, who believe that any two cards can draw to a decent hand (38o); and The High Card Heroes, who pray to the heavens for an Ace rag, which they believe is always shove-worthy.

The best approach for me vs. donkeys is to tighten up my range but then to wait for an opportunity to trap them in a hand for their stack, which is usually easier HU when they are drawing dead and they think you are bluffing because, well, everyone bluffs in poker, right?

Thanks for the chuckle

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

I think the donkbet can be useful, in the thinking game of poker. Can come in handy when lets say you flat a raise from MP or something from sb or bb with a hand like JTs or AJs, but completely miss the flop but so does the flop completely miss the range you might be putting the initial raiser on. In this case where you are almost certain the raiser is going to cbet and that you may likely float to the turn, a donk bet into the pot for 50-60% would give you some FE in the opponent thinking you have hit the flop, where in actual fact if you check he cbets and you call and the Turn comes a JTorA given the hands I indicated you are now out of position with hands that can easily be dominated.

Just my take on its use in a particular situation, mainly against the tighter players obviously. Against the looser players a good spot to donkbet when you flop a big hand and they may think you are bluffing or will try and steal or float to the turn where you can bet again if they are passive or possibly check/raise if they are uber aggressive and you think they are going to stab at it.

In general the donkbet is very frustrating for the person its going up against when you are almost certain what you expect to be their range would not have hit the flop but you did not as well which is what makes its use in such a situation to be available for multi level thinking .

I'm guessing it was termed from donks who would just bet atc on any flop in hops of stealing, but understanding what people perceive it to be is very useful. I would certainly however use it sparingly against other decent/good players who are likely to raise the donkbet thinging you are doing it for the reason i indicated above to get the FE and often might have to just give it up here because they would possibly do the same if flopped a monster but I think in more cases than not it can become beneficial.

 

[SeaRun]

I agree totally Dave. It's another good way of mixing up your play in an attempt to confuse the opponent.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

I agree totally Dave. It's another good way of mixing up your play in an attempt to confuse the opponent.

That's kind of the way I look at it - but I really try to make sure my opponent is the sort who will think about it and consider carefully what the hell is happening. For example I would be less likely to do it versus a player who would never consider or give some credence (assigned percentage) to an opponent hitting a set on the flop. No point at all (in trying to confuse and confound) if your opponent isn't at that level, BUT then it could still be used to extract some value.

BEARPLAY - you understand the question is about "The Donkbet" and not donkeys, right?

 

[LastSon76]

One specific situation I'm fond of donkbetting is in those cases where i've called a small to med raise from early or middle position with a lower pocket pair and then flop a set. ESPECIALLY when there's some faces on the board. Chances are they're either thinking they've got me dominated or think i'm bluffing. I'll often get the call with them looking towards the river, or even better, they raise my bet. . .
Which leads to a follow-up question: on the turn, what's ur thoughts in general: continue to bet right out, or check to em and raise?

 

[BearPlay]

BEARPLAY - you understand the question is about "The Donkbet" and not donkeys, right?

Oops, nope, that's what I get for 5AM reading without my coffee


That aside, I can see where mixing up your play with the donkbet, as BluffMeAllIn's example, is a great way to confuse your opponent and steal the flop, but betting 50% is not for the faint of heart, right? I'm gonna have to work up to those nerves

 

[SeaRun]

SNIP<<<< Which leads to a follow-up question: on the turn, what's ur thoughts in general: continue to bet right out, or check to em and raise?

I think that would depend on the Turn card. Let's say the Turn pairs a face on the Flop, well now you have a FH and hoping the Villain has a set, now you're off to the races. However, if the Turn brings a potential flush or straight, time to rethink bets.

 

[dasher]

The idea behind checking to the raiser is that he is likely to bet. If you hit the flop, a check gives you the option of check raising and taking control of the hand. The donk bet alerts them that you hit the flop.

However, that depends on the raiser to bet the flop. I've been in games where they only C-Bet 30-40% of their hands. In this case, the donk bet avoids giving them a free card. It also can induce folds when they are playing fit-or- fold, which is more common at low stakes.

 

[blueskies]

The donk bet alerts them that you hit the flop.

Not necessarily.

Dependng on your opponent, your donk bet may make you look weaker. Therefore when you hit a huge hand, lead out against these types of guys because a chk/raise smells fishier.

 

[Friede1988]

I always realize again, that Poker rewards dumb moves...

 

[dasher]

Not necessarily.

Dependng on your opponent, your donk bet may make you look weaker. Therefore when you hit a huge hand, lead out against these types of guys because a chk/raise smells fishier.

The reason that it makes you look weaker is that you have tipped off that you hit the flop. If he was going to CBet with air, you let him off the hook. It was a weak play because you allowed him to escape without putting any more money in.

If he does call behind you, you have no idea how strong his hand is. When he calls a check raise, you know he means business. He might call as a float or on a draw. Or he might be calling with a very strong hand and he wants you to bet the turn. You can lose a lot of money this way.

If you really know your opponent well, it might work. Personally, I think only if his CBet percentage is very low.

 

[DrazaFFT]

I wasnt planing to respond in this tread because my whole knowledge about donk bet is dont do it and that was it. I have been reading Sklansky Theory of poker and the entire chapter there was about free card, giving an opponent a free card and taking away the free card...
lets say that there is a wet board and you are oop and hit a TPTK, should we check and wait to opponent c-bet and possibly give him a chance to get the free card, if he is drawing he might check back and hit a draw. Acording to sklansky, of course if i understand it right, it is ok to donk bet if you dont want to give your opponent a free card...

 

[aa88wildbill]

I agree totally Dave. It's another good way of mixing up your play in an attempt to confuse the opponent.

I'm not sure "Donk bet" is the same thing as trying to confuse your opponent. Seems to me, a donkey is playing bad all of the time, or a lot of the time.

 

[dasher]

I'm not sure "Donk bet" is the same thing as trying to confuse your opponent. Seems to me, a donkey is playing bad all of the time, or a lot of the time.

A Donk Bet refers specially to leading into the raiser on the flop.

 

[blueskies]

The reason that it makes you look weaker is that you have tipped off that you hit the flop. If he was going to CBet with air, you let him off the hook. It was a weak play because you allowed him to escape without putting any more money in.

If he does call behind you, you have no idea how strong his hand is. When he calls a check raise, you know he means business. He might call as a float or on a draw. Or he might be calling with a very strong hand and he wants you to bet the turn. You can lose a lot of money this way.

If you really know your opponent well, it might work. Personally, I think only if his CBet percentage is very low.

What I am talking about is when you flop a monster, the kind of hand you don't mind getting it all in on the flop.

If you have the type of hand where if you donk bet and get floated then you dunno where you are, then you SHOULD NOT be leading out.

I.e. bet only if you hit complete air but feel he has nothing and will fold to your flop bet OR if you have a monster and want to extract value.

 

[dasher]

You will get more from your monsters by letting him take the lead.

 

[justanumbernow]

LINGO IVE NEVER HEARD ,,,SO IF YOU CHECK THEN RERAISE THE RAISER...WOULD THAT B A DONK BET??OR JUST A RERAISE??

 

[BearPlay]

LINGO IVE NEVER HEARD ,,,SO IF YOU CHECK THEN RERAISE THE RAISER...WOULD THAT B A DONK BET??OR JUST A RERAISE??

3 bet

 

[dasher]

LINGO IVE NEVER HEARD ,,,SO IF YOU CHECK THEN RERAISE THE RAISER...WOULD THAT B A DONK BET??OR JUST A RERAISE??

Check Raise.

 

[Arjonius]

I agree totally Dave. It's another good way of mixing up your play in an attempt to confuse the opponent.

You play 2nl and 5nl. Mixing up opponents isn't a high priority when quite a few are already prone to make sub-optimal, mediocre and poor plays fairly frequently anyway.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

I'm not sure "Donk bet" is the same thing as trying to confuse your opponent. Seems to me, a donkey is playing bad all of the time, or a lot of the time.

The two are not conjoined - a Donk Bet is not exclusively in the domain of the donkey.

 

[suby_rafael]

I like donk bets because it is a good way to try and steal a pot and it also gives you information about the opponent's hand strength. like it even more when you know you have the best piece of the board and someone donk bets into me.
Never heard of a "donk flop" before .. sorry !!

 

[GWU73]

They are occasionally useful vs. a stealer or when I flop big and the board is draw heavy. As a sides note, I usually raise when someone donk bets a ragged flop. They really are not likely to have much of a hand so I am comfortable making this play very often. If they have the guts to re-raise, I would need a hand to continue.

 

[zEric7x]

I like donk bets because it is a good way to try and steal a pot and it also gives you information about the opponent's hand strength...

This is true for me. In most cases my reaction to these bets will be to fold or raise. I fell nervous about calling these.