eetenor
Legend
Loyaler
In limit 7 card stud we can really crush our ROI by making bad calls on each street in multiple hands played and we cannot recapture that equity on lucky river cards in one hand because we will often get only 1 big bet of value. in NL and even in pot limit we can overcome our incorrect play in earlier hands with big wins but in 7 card stud it is very difficult to do. You will be folding way more often on bad cards appearing on each street than in NL and PL
S
SpaceMage
Rock Star
Bronze Level
Could you please expand your answer to give a beginners strategy of how to play 7 card stud.In limit 7 card stud we can really crush our ROI by making bad calls on each street in multiple hands played and we cannot recapture that equity on lucky river cards in one hand because we will often get only 1 big bet of value. in NL and even in pot limit we can overcome our incorrect play in earlier hands with big wins but in 7 card stud it is very difficult to do. You will be folding way more often on bad cards appearing on each street than in NL and PL
Thanks
pentazepam
Legend
Loyaler
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hutzpaf
Legend
Loyaler
Remembering your opponent's cards is very important!
This book helps a lot --> Winning 7-Card Stud - https://www.amazon.com/Winning-7-Card-Stud-Transforming-Killers/dp/0818406356
This book helps a lot --> Winning 7-Card Stud - https://www.amazon.com/Winning-7-Card-Stud-Transforming-Killers/dp/0818406356
rhoudini
Visionary
Platinum Level
I used to think like that in the beginning, but when we start to navigate the true and deeper beauties of poker, we will discover that stud games are not only fun, but also very challenging and they also open room for developing creativity and courage playing poker.
Of course, not everybody can see this, many people will not only be shortsighted, but they will prefer to stay like this forever. The fact is that many will not give a chance to the "old games" because they don't want to commit some time to understand the other games. Everybody can play understand the basics of hold'em and play ok waiting for good hands. It is easier to know what are "good hands". But the best poker players in the world are also adept of the other variants.
In a nutshell, Stud games are completely different, because there are no community cards like in flop games. In poker, there are 3 main categories of games: flop games, stud games and draw games. In stud games, some of your cards are face down, and some are face up, everybody can see. But you don't share cards.
Most of the time, 7-card Stud is a game of big pairs. This is quite intuitive. You need to wait for good starting hands like pairs, specially with good kickers, or 3 cards to a flush or straight. Because you can see some opponents' cards, you need to pay attention: these cards are removed. If you start with A♠ Q♠ 9♠ but you see three other spade cards in the board, it means that you have reduced chances of making a flush.
Also, Stud games are games of representation. Your board is very important, and a lot of the time, you can win a hand just by being aggressive with a scaring board, even if your hole cards don't connect with your face up cards.
But because antes and bring in are quite representative, you need to resist the temptation of limping (i.e. just calling the bring-in) many hands. Specially in the beginning, tight is right. In late positions, you can try some steals. If you are the first to enter the hand, raise, never limp, unless you really have good reason to do it. But in limit games there's no much space for trapping or fancy play. Stud is a straight-forward game. If you have a hand, just bet and raise!
Finally, sometimes you will have to keep calling to the end with not so good hands, like two pair, because sometimes even a high pair is good to keep betting to the end, specially if the opponent sees your board very disconnected and your hands is disguised. What makes a great stud players is the ability of knowing when to keep calling to the end, and when to give up, and when to extract one more bet of thin value, etc. This will only come with time and practice.
To know more about mixed games, have a look at The Mixed Games Corner topic.
MK_
Legend
Loyaler
I think the main difference newer players don't get is hand equities run much closer, for instance in holdem it's common to see 80/20 pre but in stud it's closer to 65/35... I think this is why some players find stud games frustrating because you are not going to be as far ahead as you would be in holdem at the start of the hand.
....the main thing to remember is always be aware of boards, what's folded, what's on opponent's boards, what's on your board,
...my fave is stud hilo but stud hi is fun too!
....the main thing to remember is always be aware of boards, what's folded, what's on opponent's boards, what's on your board,
...my fave is stud hilo but stud hi is fun too!
BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch
Visionary
Bronze Level
Play something that you can enjoy.
If you can't enjoy it then don't play it, its that simple.
If you like the game then its easier to dedicate time to learn it.
All of the poker games whether limit, pl or NL have fundamental themes or poker lessons that can be brought over to other games like NL holdem so you're not missing out.
Especially if you're still actually learning basic general poker themes/fundamentals.
Pretty sure someone like Sklansky made this point back in the 1970s but I guess some people are waiting for some top poker media figure or a video simulator or something to point this out to them, lol.
Will you be missing time that could be used to study NL holdem in detail?
Perhaps but that really depends on your level of expertise on NL Holdem.
Like if you don't understand pot odds then it might be easier to see it in a limit game than in a nl game.
But whatever, If you get sick of playing NL holdem then stud is a good poker variant to run to.
GL
If you can't enjoy it then don't play it, its that simple.
If you like the game then its easier to dedicate time to learn it.
All of the poker games whether limit, pl or NL have fundamental themes or poker lessons that can be brought over to other games like NL holdem so you're not missing out.
Especially if you're still actually learning basic general poker themes/fundamentals.
Pretty sure someone like Sklansky made this point back in the 1970s but I guess some people are waiting for some top poker media figure or a video simulator or something to point this out to them, lol.
Will you be missing time that could be used to study NL holdem in detail?
Perhaps but that really depends on your level of expertise on NL Holdem.
Like if you don't understand pot odds then it might be easier to see it in a limit game than in a nl game.
But whatever, If you get sick of playing NL holdem then stud is a good poker variant to run to.
GL
Pokerpoet2
Legend
Loyaler
The hand strength's are exactly the same as in hold-em, the only real difference is you do not play with community cards, So the possibility of 2 Players making a Royal Flush is not very likely, but it is possible, In Hold-em, this is impossible when both of you are playing the same community cards, Only one of you can possibly have the best hand because there is only one Royal Flush possible at any showdown.
I agree with the player above that to learn the game, start by playing limit games, as you have a better chance of staying in the game longer, and learning how others play their hands,
Like Hold-em the only way to learn is to Play, and it is an interesting alternative to Hold-em. I was taught by my Grand Father when I was very young and at 68 years old I still love to play 7 card Stud.
I agree with the player above that to learn the game, start by playing limit games, as you have a better chance of staying in the game longer, and learning how others play their hands,
Like Hold-em the only way to learn is to Play, and it is an interesting alternative to Hold-em. I was taught by my Grand Father when I was very young and at 68 years old I still love to play 7 card Stud.
pentazepam
Legend
Loyaler
Do you remember that some sites had Pot-Limit Stud?