Dealer Mucks All In Hand At WSOP

[Xavier]

YouTube - WSOP 2009 - AA preflop in to the muck (dead hand)
What do you think of this?
I felt so bad for her watching it.
Imagine the reaction if a dealer did that with Mike Matusow or Phil Hellmuth.

 

[moeraj]

I bet you cthose two guys would have protected their hand. It's common knowledge that it is a player's responsibility to protect their hand. tough one.

 

[PattyR]

wow i never saw this on tv...i kinda feel bad for the dealer at about 25seconds in...the old man is yellin at the dealer..its not his fault she didn protect her hand....i feel bad for her but yet i dont...she shouldn have her cards layin just asking to be mucked...next time shell learn i bet

 

[jordanbillie]

You can see the dealer is not sure when he reaches for her cards right before he mucks them. He clearly sees them, thinks for a second and then muck her cards. I know you are supposed to protect your own hand but the dealer did a very poor job there.

 

[kbasch]

She has to protect but RIGHT after she says all in he takes her cards... pretty stupid on the dealers part and totally his fault!

 

[zingbust]

They both made horrible mistakes. It is the player's responsibility to protect, but the dealer should've noticed that she was all in.

 

[032483]

Yeah I saw that on ESPN. Sure makes you think twice about protecting your cards. I know I personally don't use a card protector. this video makes me think I should.

 

[Xavier]

I bet you cthose two guys would have protected their hand. It's common knowledge that it is a player's responsibility to protect their hand. tough one.

YouTube - MIKE MATUSOW ELIMINATED WSOP 2004
Here Mike Matusow pushes all in then leans back and with his arms folded and leaves his cards unprotected just like she did.
I honestly think the same thing could happen to anyone, and players shouldn't be punished by a dealer error which is not their fault.
Bullshit ruling imo.

 

[jmnissell]

As far as that hand goes, we don't KNOW she had aces, just that she CLAIMED she did.

I saw a guy in a cash game once say all-in, out of turn, and walk away to the ATM to get more cash (knowing this particular game had enough loose, aggressive players to call and win with anything). When he returned 20 seconds later, the dealer had mucked his "aces." I don't know that he had aces any more than I know if she did. Just sayin'........

 

[lektrikguy]

Her cards are near the rail and behind her bet-no way this was to be mucked. Bad bad dealer.

 

[TheNoob]

Her cards are near the rail and behind her bet-no way this was to be mucked. Bad bad dealer.

That's what I thought.

Yes, you have to protect your cards, but not from the dealer reaching over and pulling them right off the rail when all your chips are out front.

That was a bullsht call.

 

[Xavier]

As far as that hand goes, we don't KNOW she had aces, just that she CLAIMED she did.

I saw a guy in a cash game once say all-in, out of turn, and walk away to the ATM to get more cash (knowing this particular game had enough loose, aggressive players to call and win with anything). When he returned 20 seconds later, the dealer had mucked his "aces." I don't know that he had aces any more than I know if she did. Just sayin'........

Couldn't they possibly trace her cards by watching the camera footage of the table and looking exactly where the dealer put them in the muck?

 

[FlopIt2Me]

No, they can only go so far. Once they are mixed in the muck the hand is dead. I am suprised they actually looked at the top 2 cards in the muck.

I saw this on tv, and I felt so bad for her. If it were me I would not be as calm as she was after they declared the hand dead. I couldn't take that.
But, life is not always fair.

As far as the Tony G video, Tony G is my least favorite poker player in the world. If I knew he was going to be at my table in a tournament I would bring my I-Pod and keep the volume on full blast.

 

[PokerJoeAAAA]

It happened to me the first time i played in a live game at a casino. I thought i just read that cards could be retrieved from the muck, I think if she could tell the dealer her two cards they should retrieved for her. I wish i could remember where i read that.:joyman:

 

[Jack Daniels]

Technically it is true that she was the one at fault for not protecting her hand. The dealer may have been wrong, but it was her fault.

However...

Once they are mixed in the muck the hand is dead. I am suprised they actually looked at the top 2 cards in the muck.

This is not 100% true. The TD can decide to restore the cards to her hand from the muck if it was the most fair and in the best interest on the game thing to do. I know he only looked at the two cards thought to possibly be hers which I would have done first as well. Also though, if I was the TD and she could tell me exactly which two aces she had, then I'd be inclined to even pick up the muck as it was to see if those two aces were not only both in the muck (pretty slim that should could guess that) and that they were close together. That would be enough for me to restore them.

So yeah, technically dead, but to think that a TD cannot restore them if appropriate would be wrong.

 

[Dam Yankee]

A sad situation all the way around - a tough poker lesson for her, and an embarressment to the dealer, for all of the world to watch.

Another thing that has annoyed me, is that now that they are down to only a few tables - they only have a camera at the "featured table"! What - they can't afford to have 3 camera tables? Then the TD would have had to rule differently, as it would have all been on film & the hand could have continued. Would have played out ok for both the player & dealer. Not to mention that pocket A's might have completely turned her game around. Such a shame!

 

[Sephiroth]

retarded

1 why doesnt this person have their hands on the cards
2 When this happens how is it not the dealers fault
3 If the cameras can see the cards the person should get them back
4 I didnt watch the footage lol

 

[mistuhandy]

I think it was an accident, but she need to do something to protect her cards too so basically not really the dealer fault. But kinda feel bad for her tho not that easy to get pocket AA when your short in chip and in a big tournament

 

[wagon596]

Yea tough call,, I read, if your cards are not protected and some other player mucks his hand and they land on yours, your hand is dead.... so beware...
Take care

 

[Xavier]

If she had a card protector on her cards and the dealer mucked them anyway would it have made any difference?
My guess is not if they won't retrieve her hand from the muck.
I wonder if they would have given it a different ruling if it happened to someone like Doyle Brunson and not some unknown.

 

[ukaliks]

i would of sued the dealer. sayin that i would of made the final table with that hand and they cost me at least $1million. I WANT IT NOW!!!

 

[Crummy]

That is BS... Yes.... it is 100% the player's responsibility to protect their hand, however the dealer KNEW that she was all in and those were her cards... You can see him look at her cards, look up at her then pull them in.

It's hard to say it, but yes the ruling was correct at the same time the dealer needs to be re-trained or fired for being to unaware of what was happening himself.

 

[Jack Daniels]

at the same time the dealer needs to be re-trained or fired for being to unaware of what was happening himself.

I think firing the dealer would be just a tad excessive. He clearly made a mistake and should have been more aware of what was going on, but he is still human as well. And the root cause of this whole issue is unprotected cards which is one of the top basic rules in poker; protect your cards.

And for the sake of technicality, straight from Robert's Rules of Poker:
"2. You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it."

The italics and underline are mine, not Robert's. So in summary (IMO):

[x] whole situation sucks
[x] players are responsible for protecting their cards
[x] this situation was the players fault
[ ] this situation was the dealers fault
[x] TD performed due diligence for fairness of the game
[x] dealers make mistakes and are human
[ ] dealer should be fired
[ ] she deserves more than the end result

 

[Crummy]

Well either way she took it better than I would have. If that were me I would have tried to stay calm, but my end result would have probably been something along the line of being banned from the wsop for life! I'm sure that table had hole card cams. I would have made them review it and or do something. Its a plus for her that they didn't make her all in stand and be called. How do you preform after that though? You know it bothers you and messes up your game plan!

Sometimes I don't understand how people can't or don't protect their cards at all times. Believe me when I'm at the table I keep my hands on my cards until I'm finished with them! If I don't have my hands on the cards I put a chips on the card.

 

[ukaliks]

I think firing the dealer would be just a tad excessive. He clearly made a mistake and should have been more aware of what was going on, but he is still human as well. And the root cause of this whole issue is unprotected cards which is one of the top basic rules in poker; protect your cards.

And for the sake of technicality, straight from Robert's Rules of Poker:
"2. You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it."

The italics and underline are mine, not Robert's. So in summary (IMO):

[x] whole situation sucks
[x] players are responsible for protecting their cards
[x] this situation was the players fault
[ ] this situation was the dealers fault
[x] TD performed due diligence for fairness of the game
[x] dealers make mistakes and are human
[ ] dealer should be fired
[ ] she deserves more than the end result

+1