When to re-raise with low pairs in the hole?

[Dgnr8Gambler]

I wanted to get a discussion started about re-raising with low pairs in the hole. I'm talking about pocket 4's through 8's here.

In my opinion, if you're in the blinds or even on the button, re-raising with a low pair can be a good strategy against someone who raised only say 3 times the BB in late position. Many times, they will have a marginal hand like KQ suited, QJ suited, maybe A9suited, but will not have a wired pair. If you've got a secure chip stack and have been playing tight-agressive, this late player might put you on a higher pocket pair or perhaps AKsuited or AQsuited, which will have them beat.

I am interested to hear your opinions. Many believe that seeing the flop as cheaply as possible with low pairs is the way to go. I agree thats the case with 22 andn 33, but what about 44 and up???

degenerategambler

 

[buckster436]

My opinion is dont re-raise with low pairs,get in as cheap as possible and see the flop,then go from there,if you re-raise with low pairs before the flop you are setting yourself up,if you catch a set on the flop then take it from there,im talkin a full table,at heads you got to play low pairs different different.

buckster436:ridinghor

 

[Jesus Lederer]

In my opinion, if you're in the blinds or even on the button, re-raising with a low pair can be a good strategy against someone who raised only say 3 times the BB in late position. Many times, they will have a marginal hand like KQ suited, QJ suited, maybe A9suited, but will not have a wired pair. If you've got a secure chip stack and have been playing tight-agressive, this late player might put you on a higher pocket pair or perhaps AKsuited or AQsuited, which will have them beat.

I agree with you. In some situations it can be a good idea to reraise with small-medium pairs. It works like a semibluff, because you know your hand is vulnerable so you can steal a decent pot if your opponent folds (obviously as a bluff it works better if you have a tight image), but if your opponent calls with something like AK, AQ, KQs, etc. you still have good odds to win. If you´re reraised, then you can think in something like AA, KK, QQ, etc. and you can fold.
All strategies works depending on the situation, so even if your reraise is just called by your opponent, he may have a high pair like QQ or JJ, and viceversa, even if you´re reraised, you opponent may have something like AKs or AQs. So first of all you have to analize the situation and which opponent are you "attacking".

Many believe that seeing the flop as cheaply as possible with low pairs is the way to go. I agree thats the case with 22 andn 33, but what about 44 and up???

When i can i try to see the flop cheaply and if i don´t hit the set, generally i fold.
In my opinion that works the same for 22 and 33 as for 44,55,66...

 

[ronholes7059]

I usually don't reraise with anything lower than tens, but sometimes the situation dictates a reraise and it usually can win you the pot before the flop if you are a tight player. I usually only do it when i am on the button though but if you do it and you get called and are first to act after the flop I suggest betting the flop no matter what to see where you stand in the hand, especially if overs such as A K Q flop. if your opponent is playing overs like Q J or K J they might drop the hand if you put out a bet after the flop especially if you reraised preflop.

 

[km3_16]

WOW...some really great tips on here guys....thanks!! I had no idea how to play small pockets or medium ones. I used to just call with small and even go all in with some mediums. This is definately my favorite thread to DATE!!!

 

[ReKoP]

I like raising with small PP because if I get reraised, I know where I stand in the hand.

 

[Crippler450]

If you reraise with low/medium pocket pairs, dont hesitate to give up if the flop comes out with some paint. You're probably beat if it does.

 

[Dgnr8Gambler]

KM - glad you like the thread. I have heard many various opinions on how to play small to medium pocket pairs, but it is always good to hear some more.

Crippler - you definitely hit the nail on the head - you gotta be willing to give up if an unfavorable flop comes!

 

[Bill_Hollorian]

Umm, an unfavorable flop will be a HUGE majority of them. Long term 2 bets to see a gigantic, huge majority of unfavorable flops is negative expectation. These hands will only improve 1 in 6 times. When they improve they are likely to be improving to second best a lot also. Get in cheap, or don't even play them.


Bill

 

[Tammy]

Of course every situation is different, but generally, I would NOT re-raise w/ a small pocket pair. I may call the raise in hopes of getting trips on the flop, but I would be very leary about re-raising. If your opponent does have something like AK, QJ, or even J 10, there are two over cards giving them more outs, whereas you basically can only hope for one card to give you a set.

 

[qwerrk]

I'm with Bill. 'Course position and what sort of bead I've gotten on those in ahead of me may say different....

Good topic ^_^

 

[IrishDave]

Depending on position and the feel of the table, about all I do is limp in and try for the set. I'll drop them quicker than a hot rock if they don't improve. About the only exception for me is heads up and only when it feels right based on the situation...

 

[xdmanx007]

hmmm position and number of opponents dictate how I play 9's and lower. Late position with a few limpers I am along for the ride, fold to a raise though. No raises with 1 caller I might go for a preflop raise and a flop bet if I like what I see. In NL I either dump em or raise preflop though most likely to dump em.

 

[tenbob]

Great thread from someone with less than 15 posts, everyone else take note !!!

When I started playing holdem i would treat mid to low pocket pairs like gold dust I would bet and raise and never let them go in the hope of making a set by the river. Now i get in cheap and fold if the flop dosnt hit. Heads up its a good hand but again a dangerous one.

 

[WillWiggly]

What's the Flop Gonna do ?

Get in cheap, Play cheap, and don't be overly aggressive. If it costs to much when the flop hits, I'm out. I've seen people(as I'm sure all of you have) go "all in" with double deuces pre-flop. I'll test the waters, but stay within a reasonable boundary.

 

[Dgnr8Gambler]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I think we got a little off track, however. In my original post, I said that reraising against someone who raised in LATE position and only about THREE TIMES the big blind might be profitable. I definitely wouldn't reraise against someone opening in early or early-mid position, because it's almost guaranteed they're holding something that has you beat. However, like I said before, someone raising in late position might have a marginal hand like QJ or KQ, and you might be able to get them to lay that down.

 

[lunagirl]

hmmm.... not to get off track again, but you mentioned the hand KQ as a marginal hand. I don't really see it as being so marginal. KQ is a pretty good hand. According to Sklansky's hand groupings, it's definitely higher than any low pair. Unless I had a feel for the player and thought he was bluffing or playing so tight I could bluff him off anything but a completely premium hand, I would probably lay down a low pair rather than reraise.

 

[titans4ever]

Here are the problems I have in general with reraising with pocket pairs 4-8.

1) Over cards. example for you 88s: 86% chance to see at least one over card on the flop. 39% chance for just one, 36% for 2 overs and 11% for all 3. 11% chance to hit your set on the flop. Same odds to see 3 overs as for hitting your set. I don't like those odds. By them simply raising a standard raise you would have to give them some respect and assume at least one over card if not both.

2) Position. Your example was in the blinds. You are out of position and if you bet and he just calls you don't really learn any more info about the strength of his hand. Your only option is a check/raise to see where your at after the flop. NOT FUN with overcards on the flop since that would get you even more pot committed. This can represent a set even if you did not hit so you have a stealing option here.

I know poker is a game of situations but these are two things that I consider before I would play any of those pairs.

 

[Dgnr8Gambler]

pokerfan - good points.

Lunagirl - I couldn't disagree more..... KQ is VERY marginal. I have lost with this "great" hand more than with any other. It is better than say a pair 4-8...... but is it THAT much better?

 

[foldqueen]

I have a hard time re-raising with low pair preflop. So many people love to go all-in when you do this online. So before I ever re-raise or raise preflop, I think to myself would I call an allin? It also is very situational, if you have the chips then you can afford to push others around with raises with a small pair. I make descisions in the moment of play and follow my gut. I don't think you can plan your stategy in poker beforehand and succeed.

 

[diabloblanco]

To address one point, KQ is a decent hand if you hit the right flop, but you're only a slight favorite to improve over a middle pair with it than you are to flop an improvement to your existing poket pair. It simply isn't that great or terrible a set of hole cards. Very marginal.

To address the OP when you're re-raising a 3xBB raise from someone in LP, if they are holding KQ, you almost certainly aren't going to scare them off of it with the amount of money you're going to invest in small pockets (which isn't too much). If they are any kind of player, they will most likely have your range of hands narrowed down to a few overs and middle to low pockets and assume you're re-stealing your blinds.

In other words, say I raise from LP 4xBB or 200. Chipstacks are at about 1250 or so and the action is folded to you in the BB. What size raise do you think your pocket 7's are worth? To call his raise you're already into the pot 200 or right at 20% of your stack. Then to raise sufficiently enough to scare him off his hand you'll have to pop it at minimum his original raise of 4xBB, usually a little more. So lets assume you re-raise him 5xBB and make it 250 more to call. You have 450 out of your 1250 stack in a pot pre-flop (over 33%) against an opponent who you haven't really gleaned any information from as to the strength of his hand. He may be holding AA KK QQ JJ AK or any overpair and you will be dominated in the hand with over a third of your stack in the pot.

If you're going to add these middle and low pocket pairs to your arsenal, which I highly recommend, you have to realize that unles you're heads up, you are going to have to exploit the slightlest edge statistically when playing these hands to make them profitable in the long term. Short of being able to see your opponents hole cards, this simply requires tons and tons of playing time. If you can get in cheap and see a flop with your middle to low pocket pairs at a full ring then go for it. Just be willing to drop them if someone jams the pot when overcards flop unless you're positive that they're representing a flop that missed both of you.

Playing medium pocket pairs can be extremely profittable, but if you don't or can't get rid of them when the situation dictates you will lose a ton more over time than you will win. Damn I've been long winded lately.

 

[ItaliaHockey]

i say flop or turn is best, sometimes river but it has to be a big raise

 

[diabloblanco]

Italiahockey...if you're just whoring out to get your 15 posts do it in the lounge and leave the real poker talk to us grown-ups. Mkay, thanks.

 

[rocknjo]

short and sweet

My opinion is short and sweet on the pocket pair topic. Don't be swooned by the pocket pair. It's easy to think you're in the money, and quite often you wind up with one pair. Just use caution or you just may get caught with your pants down.:thumpdown I seem to have a fairly easy time discovering who has a pocket pair at the table. Just something to keep in mind.:tee:

 

[luckyjew]

this strategy is a good idea i thin, because even of face cards hit the flop you could easily be setting up for a bluff