Playing the board

[Bill_Hollorian]

Here is the situation,

You hold Ac, 8h in the cut off.

Live Deepstack cash game $10-$20 N/L , it is raised to $150 by new player UTG +1 he has about 3,000 in front of him.
2 loose calls befor you.
You call, and then the button behind you calls.

5 to the flop pot = $750

Flop is KK9 rainbow.

It checks around.

Turn is another 9 which stalls the action again, and it checks around.

River is another 9, UTG+1 fires $150 everyone calls to you.

Question: You decide he is betting the board, and the rest are calling the board.
Is it too late to represent the King efectively? Is the King really out there?
How much should you raise, because if they are playing the board it would be nice to eliminate as many people you are chopping with as possible.
Or, do you just surrender and let hin blatantly steal this pot?

Bill

 

[twizzybop]

Everyone has checked on the flop.. Possible slow play by someone holding K,Q because there is no real threat of straight or flush. You missed your opportunity to represent the K when you checked the flop. If you do try to represent that you have a King, you have to bet really strong. Yet with this many callers, I would definatly put one with either the K,Q 8,9 suited, 10,J looking for the gut shot straight, cheap bet for him not to call to try to get the 8% chance of it. Yet more then likely someone has a fullhouse..UTG probably pushing pocket pair either 10's, JJ's, or QQ's.. he is representing higher then the board 9's.

Dangerous all around here for a pretty good investement of only 150. Let it go and fight for another hand when the water isn't so shallow.

 

[F Paulsson]

Question: You decide he is betting the board, and the rest are calling the board.

Eh. How did we decide this? With KK, AK or KQ, he could easily be slowplaying it to induce a bluff. He's hoping for someone - anyone - to bet the flop, but no one does. He swears to himself that he may have given a free card to a straight, but then another 9 appears on the turn. Bless the heavens, he's invincible to any straight or flush - he can safely check again. Surely someone - anyone - will have a 9 and bet away? Dammit! Checked around again! Well, if no one is going to bet his hand for him, he's just going to have to do it himself. Small bet, to induce callers, as it's clear that no one has anything.

What's he raising with in UTG+1 that doesn't beat the board? QQ, JJ and TT are options, but checking with those on the flop would have been weak. Not unheard of, but weak. If he has AA, he's not going to split. AQ is the only real option that I see.

Behind to: AA, KK, AK, KQ, 9x (I don't see what hand he's raising with preflop that contains a 9, though).
Split with: Anything else. With any kind of realistic range of hands, that should be AQ and maybe AJs.

You're getting even money for this call (paying $150 to win $150). Are you 50% certain that you'll get this pot split?

I may have gotten away from the intention of this post, but looking through the scenario, it just screamed "slowplay" at me.

 

[Bill_Hollorian]

Actually you are ahead of the post a bit as usual Twizzy and FPaul.

What I am trying to evaluate is taking into account the the Kx, 9x, over pairs is there any consideration that can be made to raising this pot. For example can you bet AA off of his hand? If so, is it equitable?

Bill

 

[twizzybop]

Well you really can't based apon that you have no real info on the New player and the loose players really haven't made a stab at the pot.

Still brings me to someone slow playing here. If UTG is holding aces, it isn't going to matter if you re-raise or not. The K and the 9 is very feesible holdings by the other players...

$750 in the pot to begin with.. with an additional $600 brings it to $1350..not to mention you haven't called, fold or re-raised yet.

Great looking pot but you almost have to re-raise extremely big to try to win this pot...Yet now if the original raiser has KK's and bet small to entice someone to go over him with the small bet?

The only thing you really have going for you here at best is position. You shown weakness at the flop by just checking letting everyone get a free card because you have a chance for a free card. To late now to really show strength, you could but chances are that this hand won't be won by you.

Back to the saying.. a bet saved is a bet earned.

What you did Bill and should have asked.. is a re-raise here going to make UTG fold considering he has only 3 grand to work with.

Making 4 others fold on a re-raise would have to hope that nobody else has a K never mind a 9. Yes %'s show there is a good possibility that nobody has a K and we'd be in position to show we have it. Yet we didn't establish that on the flop to begin with.

A re-raise won't get the field to fold.

 

[xdmanx007]

Loose players effectively kill any chance you have at taking it down. I'd say it is too late SOMEBODY will call you regardless of their holding.

Of course somebody could be slow playing but just because that possibility is there does not mean you CAN'T take a good stab at the pot. Although I'd say any chance you had was destroyed when the turn was checked.

Making a move on the turn is a good play because it will likely work more times than not and the only hand that will call is either a K or 9 so your opponent hand is then defined. So in that situation I would be VERY likely to take a stab at the pot on the turn but not the flop or river.

 

[Bill_Hollorian]

I raised $1000 Button folded. UTG+1 goes into the tank. He comes out and just calls leaving himself just under 1000 if he lost, I figured the decision was at least on him, and since he didnt push his last 1000 I was probably ok. the 2 loose guys fold. UTG+1 looks up and says, I hope your playing the board... I said ummm..ya.

When he tanked I figured I was in trouble with a AK or AA, and he was sweating whether I had the case 9. Everyon else got upset and and the 2 loose players tilted.

In retrospect after hearing everyone's thoughts I believe I played it wrong, and got lucky. Thank you for your input.

Metagame, the 2 loose players tilting created a very profitable situation.

Bill