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Message: [QUOTE="DunningKruger, post: 2345377, member: 94310"] Just trying to better understand the thoughts/logic of the poster I replied to. Bet/folding otr only makes sense if there are a sufficient number of worse hands that will pay the bet. The thing is, even if bet/folding is a profitable play, it just means that shoving is likely to be more profitable. To contrive a set of circumstances where bet/fold is better than jamming isn't easy because for one thing villain would need to get to the river with a wide enough variety of hands that her calling range can sufficiently expand (or contract) based on the size of our bet - assuming she'll actually do that to begin with. Just based on some of the thoughts on this hand so far (mainly hero who would know better than any of us I suppose, but also Sandbag who I was replying to) it doesn't seem like villain has a particularly wide range on the river here. Another problem with bet/fold in the face of ridiculous odds is that you have to soul read this 35/8 flawlessly not to make an epic blunder. With even the smallest chance this is a hand value jamming we can actually beat or split with... maybe an AA (it's plausible to suggest villain doesn't have us on any better than a big pocket pair) or something we don't expect to see in her range like an A2s or 32s or whatever... then suddenly bet/fold is a definite mistake. You don't often get into situations where a bet/fold is the best play when you have less than a pot sized bet to begin with, and I'm not convinced this is one of those times. Basically I'm just wondering how shoving can be so terrible and yet at the same time bet/folding is something a few of you are cool with. [/QUOTE]

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