How do you rank off suit broadway hands?

[Thinker_145]

I think we all love suited broadways as they are some of the strongest speculative hands in poker. What I want to know is what people here think of off suit broadway hands so this thread is primarily talking about them. So when I say KQ I mean KQo only.

To start off obviously everyone loves AK/AQ and rightly so as when played well these hands are big winning hands. However AQ is not a good enough hand to call a 3 bet OOP and certainly not good enough to call 50+ BB all in. There are so many fish who just cant let go off AQ pre and that makes AK such a monster in micro stakes.

So these are the top 2 hands and now things become increasingly difficult. I think AJ and KQ are actually pretty close. Now I know many won't agree with this but I actually somewhat prefer KQ over AJ especially in a multi way pot or a FR game. Against fish I would much rather have AJ since they really over play Ax hands. While both are good poker hands but they really require a lot of caution. OOP against very tight players these are not good hands and should be folded. IP one can always play these hands without a 3 bet.

So these were the top 4 hands and now we are left with 6. KJ and QJ occupy the next 2 spots. I personally very much prefer KJ as I find QJ to be a really mediocre hand even IP. These are 2 hands which look really good but are no way near as big a hands as they appear. They are both good enough to open from the BTN but fat calling these is not always a good idea. OOP these should be avoided at all times unless its really cheap to see the flop like facing a min bet on the BB. Both these hands should be folded UTG unless its a < 6 handed game.

Now we are left with 4 hands and they are all absolutely mediocre hands. I am not quite sure how to rate them but I suppose it goes like AT > KT > JT > QT. I would be really interested in how other's would rate these 4 hands. JT is the best straight drawing hand in poker however that's all it has really going for it.

I think dealing with broadway hands is really where the "skill" part in poker comes into play. Anybody can shove AA and set mine 22 but these hands require particularly more thought and strategy.

I am looking forward to here some insightful opinions on these hands and whether you agree with my assessments or not.

 

[bullishwwd]

In POSITION, certainly OK, as long as you can get in cheap to see flop. Out of position, NO, especially with several players yet to act.

If you hit the flop, a 1/2 bet is good. If you don't hit flop, FOLD on any bet from opposition.

Wally

 

[Weisssound]

It's not so easy to say OOP AJ is a fold. There's much more to it than that.

In a full ring cash game, if I'm UTG, AJo is often a fold for me. But it's not just because it's an easily dominated hand. It's because I don't know if the person calling me is playing a better A, or some other speculative hand, or a pocket pair of who knows what. And with 8 people behind me, there's just too much shit out there.

But in 6max, AJo is fine for me in any position really. Same idea with KQ.

Suited or unsuited really doesn't make much difference pre-flop. It's just a nice little leverage piece if your suit hits the flop. But in truth it's going to add about 2% to equity of your hand.

Anyway, back on topic. Hand value doesn't exist in a box. It's always relative to your position and your opponents ranges. KT OOP against a pre-flop calling station is fine. Particularly if you know how to navigate post flop. KT from the SB against a nitty BB is also fine. You can often steal and have a fair hand with a pretty solid idea of your opponents range if called.

In addition, if I'm out of position pre-flop against a Loose-Passive player almost any 2 cards are good because I can raise pre-flop, bet the flop, and get folds fairly often.

So... in short... it all depends.

 

[Thinker_145]

Suited or unsuited really doesn't make much difference pre-flop. It's just a nice little leverage piece if your suit hits the flop. But in truth it's going to add about 2% to equity of your hand.

That is such a flawed statement. 2% is all in equity so ya if we are gonna shove QJ then its not much important if it is suited or not. Except that we aren't shoving or calling an all in with a suited Broadway.

When we are getting to see the flop cheaply it makes a big difference if its suited or not.

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk

 

[Weisssound]

That is such a flawed statement. 2% is all in equity so ya if we are gonna shove QJ then its not much important if it is suited or not. Except that we aren't shoving or calling an all in with a suited Broadway.

When we are getting to see the flop cheaply it makes a big difference if its suited or not.

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I don't really agree with that. If you don't feel you're going to be in a good position to play QJo, it's flawed logic to think that having the cards on suit is going to be significantly better. In the cases where being suited and connecting does make the difference, you're really no worse off than 78s or pocket 4s, because you're looking toward a hit or miss flop. So, yeah, if there's three other people in the hand pre-flop, being suited might make the difference for going into the multi-way hand. But in a heads up type situation, being suited won't usually help much. At least in my experience.

 

[A2345Razz]

Much better IP than OOP...

Much better as the aggressor than as the caller....

Much better shallow than deep//.