climbing levels, taking into account the bankroll

[Paya_31]

Hello! I found videos on Youtube explaining how to level up, where they explained the following

NL2 $2 - $800
NL5$800 - $1200
NL10 $1200 - $2000
NL16 $2,000 - $3,000
NL25 $3,000 - $6,000
NL50 $6,000 - $12,000
NL100 $12,000 - $22,000
NL200 $22,000 - $65,000
that in this way there is no risk of losing the bankroll.

Then I found another video where he levels up with 10 boxes, which for me has a high percentage of risk.

What level are you at and how are you managing your bankroll? What did you take into account to level up?

 

[makisaa]

This is an ideal situation, but in real things are different. You can level up earlier, depending from your dynamic generally.

 

[Naked Flush]

I don't think you should need such a large BR for the smaller stakes. For $2nl up to $25nl, 50 buy-ins should be plenty.

Play enough hands at the stake you're at to prove you can beat it before moving up (more than 25k hands), or set aside 2 buy-ins to take a shot with the intention of moving back down if you lose it.

You can play around with this calculator to see if your winnings could be a good run, or skill: https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

 

[Station_Master]

These amounts are quite cautious. 40 -100 buy ins should be enough. But this assumes you are a winning player. Even a huge bankroll wont save you if you have a negative win rate

 

[Poker Orifice]

Hello! I found videos on Youtube explaining how to level up, where they explained the following

NL2 $2 - $800
NL5$800 - $1200
NL10 $1200 - $2000
NL16 $2,000 - $3,000
NL25 $3,000 - $6,000
NL50 $6,000 - $12,000
NL100 $12,000 - $22,000
NL200 $22,000 - $65,000
that in this way there is no risk of losing the Bankroll.

Then I found another video where he levels up with 10 boxes, which for me has a high percentage of risk.

What level are you at and how are you managing your bankroll? What did you take into account to level up?

These numbers are INCORRECT for Cash games!!!
These are numbers you'd see suggested for a Tournament Bankroll, 100-200 buyins (Or more!) for MTT's
Honestly for Cash Game, 30 buyins is conservative, 25 is okay, 20 is a bit aggressive.

I am a Bankroll NIT but currently am in the process (for fun!) of building up a roll on partypoker (outside of my regular playing).. $1 to $1k
I have ~$90 on there now (had $1 earlier in March) and am playing 10nl (so.. just 9 buyins). It's a bit too aggressive but it's basically 2nl or 10nl because they don't have much volume on the 5nl tables. So there's NO WAY I'm going to play 2nl with 45buyins. (that's crazy!).

When you look at the numbers you've posted, it really falls within the parameters of MTT play.
$50 MTT $6,000 to $12,000 120 buyins to 240buyins. <<<< this is recommended!
50nl ($0.25/$0.50), you'd be looking at $1,500 (maybe $1,250)

And 50 buyins isn't going to help a player if they don't have an edge at the stakes they choose to play. It'll just mean it'll take you twice as long to hit zero... but you will hit zero eventually. fwiw, 50 is WAYYYYY too many for micro stakes cash games!

 

[fundiver199]

There is no "perfect" bankroll management scheeme, since it depends among other things on your ability to suffer large swings without going on tilt, and your willingness to move down when required. But the numbers from that first Youtube video are ridiculously conservative especially for the micros. For someone new to the game and trying to build up their first bankroll, I will suggest something like the numbers quoted below. Which is pretty much, what I did myself, but with the disclaimer, that I never made it past 25NL, because I then moved to tournaments.

NL2 $2 - $100
NL5 $100 - $250
NL10 $250 - $500
NL16 $500 - $1.000
NL25 $1.000 - $2.000
NL50 $2.000 - $5.000
NL100 $5.000 - $10.000
NL200 $10.000 - $20.000

Note that the numbers get more conservative, as you climb in stakes. This is because, games get significantly tougher, once you climb out of the micros, and it also becomes more difficult (at least for some) to replace a lost bankroll. So it is reasonable to spend a decent amount of time in the micros before attempting to move up further. But you want to spend most of that time at 5-16NL not 2NL, because here you will find play, which is at least a bit more similar to that at higher stakes.

 

[fundiver199]

Just want to add, that the traditional way to see the term "bankroll management" is, that its an amount of money, which reduces the risk of a winning player to go broke due to short term bad luck to some acceptable level like maybe less than 1%. However this idea assume, that we continue to play the same game, until - ultimately - all our bankroll is gone.

But when we design a system for moving up and down, that is not the situation, we are in. In a scheeme like the one outlined above we are only at risk of going broke, when we play in the 2NL regime. The rest of the time we are only at risk of having to move down. So the purpose of the system is not to protect us from going broke. The purpose is to avoid wild rides, where one week we are playing 100NL, but then a few weeks later we are back at 5NL. This is not a good way to play poker, because we dont get time to properly adjust to different player pool tendencies at the different limits. And we never collect a sample big enough to even have an idea about, if we are actually beating a certain limit, or if we just got lucky and won a few big pots.

Finally its really difficult for most people to find the mental motivation to play 5NL, if they have tried playing 100NL. What happen most of the time is, that people feel, they now "belong" at 100NL, so they forget all about bankroll management, dont move down, and end up going broke. And this is why, its important to use a system, where we only rarely have to move down more than one or at most two limits before being able to move back up again. Like maybe we are trying to move from 25NL to 50NL, but we only have 2.200$, so essentially a 4 BI "shot", which fails. Then we are back at 25NL, but unless we now also lose 40 BIs here, we dont need to move down any further.

 

[Pokerpoet2]

Do you really want to level up when playing? When I play my first objective is to build a bankroll from freerolls, then look into 25/50 Cent single table games once I have around $30/$50 in my Bankroll, after a while I will build it up and move into $1/$2 buy-ins but after that I am happy staying at that level.
I suppose I answered my initial question, but I have not played for a long time now and still find I don't have the incentive to play.

 

[Naked Flush]

I am a Bankroll NIT but currently am in the process (for fun!) of building up a roll on Partypoker (outside of my regular playing).. $1 to $1k
I have ~$90 on there now (had $1 earlier in March) and am playing 10nl (so.. just 9 buyins). It's a bit too aggressive but it's basically 2nl or 10nl because they don't have much volume on the 5nl tables. So there's NO WAY I'm going to play 2nl with 45buyins. (that's crazy!).

Awesome! I can't play at Partypoker, but I'm doing the same thing on another site. However I started with more like $40. Got it up to almost $300 playing 10nl which is their lowest cash stake. So I guess I started playing with 4 buyins. Although I haven't been over there to build it up lately.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Awesome! I can't play at Partypoker, but I'm doing the same thing on another site. However I started with more like $40. Got it up to almost $300 playing 10nl which is their lowest cash stake. So I guess I started playing with 4 buyins. Although I haven't been over there to build it up lately.

Nice! Is that at SportsBetting or Betonline? I've played a few hands on SB but I think I only have ~$10 on there. I've considered depositing on there recently because it seemed a bit softer than Stars & GG (time of day was probably key as well)

 

[valetgll]

Level one is right for me.

 

[Naked Flush]

Nice! Is that at SportsBetting or Betonline? I've played a few hands on SB but I think I only have ~$10 on there. I've considered depositing on there recently because it seemed a bit softer than Stars & GG (time of day was probably key as well)

Betonline. I haven't ever checked out SportsBetting. There's a few other sites I'd like to look into like ARC and BlackChip, but I have too many sites already! My main site currently is Bovada.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Betonline. I haven't ever checked out SportsBetting. There's a few other sites I'd like to look into like ARC and BlackChip, but I have too many sites already! My main site currently is Bovada.

SportsBetting & Betonline are the same player pool. (ACR & BlackChip are also same player pool but on the 'Winning Poker Network'). Perhaps you're aware of this already, but if not... well there you go.
I played on bodog many years ago and actually left when it went to anonymous tables but just recently I've been considering depositing and playing on there again (part of my future goals/plans) but for MTT play.

 

[Poker Orifice]

What did you take into account to level up?

QJo on 19bb's in UTG (vs. table where stacks are ~15-25bb's) is an 'open fold'. (lol)

 

[Igor Popadyk]

the lower the limit, the more aggressive bankroll management, and vice versa, the higher the stakes, the more conservative