Book Discussion: Theory of Poker, chapter 14 and 15

[F Paulsson]

Checkraising - understand when to use it, when NOT to use it and how to use it to give drawing hands bad odds when you want to win a pot.

Slowplaying - understand the five criteria that have to be in place.

These two tactics have something in common: They can be considered "traps." The problem with laying traps, of course, is when they backfire.

The most common problem with checkraising is when you end up giving a free card, because the person you expected to bet didn't.

The most common problem with slowplaying, besides giving a free card to beat you (which, if you follow the five criteria, should be a rare thing), is when it actually makes you less money than if you had just bet to begin with. A lot of people are more prone to calling than betting themselves, and if you check, you make no money.

Discuss!

NOTE: Please do not quote the book. This thread is to help broaden the understanding of the book, not rip off the copyright of it. Feel free to discuss, but try doing so without infringing on David Sklansky's and 2+2 Publishing's intellectual property rights. Thank you.

 

[joosebuck]

When check-raising, you need to look at where you are in relation to the person you believe will bet, as well as how strong you think you are. With 2 pair, you want less callers than you do with a hidden set. With the 2 pair you want the players to have to call his bet + your raise, whereas with the set (on a not dangerous board) you would want them to call his bet and then your check-raise, because people are more likely to call the 2nd bet after they have already called the first.

 

[joosebuck]

The first instance gives drawing hands bad odds, but if you have a monster you want to use the second one.

 

[Xandit]

It seems to me that most people don't understand that these are 2 diffrent plays. On the check raise you raise on the same round of betting, trying to kill the odds of the drawing hands, although most will still call that one bet, which is ok because according to the therom, we gain by them calling with incorrect odds.

The slow play is one that i don't do a lot of, there are just not enough hands that come along to justify it. We all know the feeling of flopping the straight and getting killed by a higher straight on the river because we had a case of FPS (fancy play syndrome). I think too many players use the slow play incorrectly. They over value their hands in relation to the board and other players. Then wonder why they lost the hand, where just betting out could have gotten the pot.



The most common problem with slowplaying, besides giving a free card to beat you (which, if you follow the five criteria, should be a rare thing), is when it actually makes you less money than if you had just bet to begin with. A lot of people are more prone to calling than betting themselves, and if you check, you make no money

This is somethig you see professionals do all the time, they will flop the straight or flush and bet right out only to get paid off by someone trying to make a move. I know this is set up by all the time they play together but the old adage still fits. Bet when you have it, fold when you dont'.

 

[F Paulsson]

It seems to me that today, so many of the low limit players are constantly trying to trap and slowplay that when I bet my trip kings on the flop, no one wants to believe I actually have it. "He can't have the kings! He'd slowplay and raise the turn!"

Also, slowplaying a hand that is already concealed is not needed, either. Like flopping a straight - no one has any reason to believe they're drawing (almost) dead, so why would they behave differently just because you checked? No, bet your flopped straights. Flushes are a different animal when you flop them however, because unless you flopped the nut flush, you're vulnerable (varyingly vulnerable, of course) to people outdrawing your flush. Still, when you flop a flush, keep in mind that people with even just medium cards of that suit are more likely to call a SMALL bet on the flop than they are to call a BIG bet on the turn. Bet the flop, massage the pot, and profit immensely.

Another thing to note is how obvious a slowplay can be when you hit a monster with a monster starting hand, like an AAK board when you've capped preflop. Checking your AK isn't going to get you much money (unless there's a flush draw that you can hope someone to hit) because you're not likely to get any action anywhere anyway. Just realize that you weren't going to get any action here anyway, pat yourself on the shoulder for having raised preflop, and move on.

Slowplaying is another move that is a whole lot better in no-limit than it is in limit, because your implied odds aren't that great no matter what you do.

Checkraising to make draws unprofitable, however, is a wonderful play in limit hold 'em.