Blackrain79 vs Jonathan Little

[nameless1537]

I’m trying to figure out where to spend my time in terms of study away from the table (figuratively... I only play online). I’ve been watching mostly Blackrain79 videos on YouTube to really understand his mindset. For those who have both watched the videos and read his book — is the info kind of redundant between the two? If you watch most of his videos, do you really need to read the book?

Now, I presently play 2NL and want to move up (of course) but still trying to get familiar with the cash game. I’ve played a fair bit in microstakes tourneys and SNGs but trying to develop my post-flop skills in cash games.

In today’s game, do you generally recommend Blackrain79 over Jonathan Little at these stakes? Does that opinion change as you move up in stakes? What are the similarities and differences between their approaches?

Would love to read your opinions before I put more time (and maybe money) into either of those resources...

 

[feisas7991]

To begin with im not familiar with blackrain79.
John i think is at best winning player up to $215 mtts online nowadays. Though he constructs ranges pretty well from what ive seen in his recent videos.

Now i recommend you to stick with one format that you want to play long term.
Observe patterns and right them down, off tables try to come up with strategy to counter it. For example in low stakes there is a lot of limping and naturally you want to blow the pot through the roof since they already tell you that they want to play their hand cheaply, etc...
Observe ranges that people donk with, cbet sizings etc.
Make or find (modify ideally) charts for your games for every situation.
If you plan to stick to cash games, there is absolutely no reason to spend any money up to nl10, same goes to mtts up to ~$11-$22. Post as many hands as you can on quality forums such as Cards Chat.
If you simply generated too many hands that you are not sure about pm me, ill go through them with you.
These 3 beginning stages will make you extremely good reg if you execute it all right.
Good Luck

 

[fundiver199]

Jonathan Little is mostly a tournament specialist.

 

[Babis VGS]

For NL2 blackrain79 for sure. When you reach NL10 you have to find other sources because he is super outdated on these stakes .

 

[pentazepam]

As others have stated blackrain79 is mainly a low limit cash game specialist.

Jonathan Little are focused on relatively high stakes tournaments. But can also play cash well (especially Live).

If you want to play simple poker what still can be winning poker at the lowest stake blackrain teaches the basics pretty good.

But Jonathan Little talks and write much more about balanced play and bluffing ranges that is important if you want to move up in stakes.

 

[thatguy6793]

I’m trying to figure out where to spend my time in terms of study away from the table (figuratively... I only play online). I’ve been watching mostly Blackrain79 videos on YouTube to really understand his mindset. For those who have both watched the videos and read his book — is the info kind of redundant between the two? If you watch most of his videos, do you really need to read the book?

Now, I presently play 2NL and want to move up (of course) but still trying to get familiar with the cash game. I’ve played a fair bit in microstakes tourneys and SNGs but trying to develop my post-flop skills in cash games.

In today’s game, do you generally recommend Blackrain79 over Jonathan Little at these stakes? Does that opinion change as you move up in stakes? What are the similarities and differences between their approaches?

Would love to read your opinions before I put more time (and maybe money) into either of those resources...

Personally I would suggest you use Blackrain79 if you're still at 2NL. His stuff will hope you the mot build a foundation at the really low stakes and help you move up the first couple rungs on the ladder. Once you move up 2 or 3 stakes, you can start following more of Little's advice to help you keep progressing. I've used both and I am of fan of each, for starters with Blackrain79 material I'd suggest his book "Crushing the microstakes" to start out. It's a really solid strategy guide for 2NL. Best of luck!

 

[fundiver199]

I am a fan of the stuff, both these guys do, and Nathan (the real name of Blackrain79) is actually almost a friend of mine, even though we have not yet met in person. So I can surely recommend both, but as others have said, for 2NL cash "Crushing the Microstakes" is still the bible.

It is a little bit old though, and while 95% of the content is still valid and usefull, someone of the most exploitative strategies like overraising preflop are not as effective, as they used to be. Even Nathan himself will admit this, if you ask him.

And if you are going to take highly exploitative lines, you really need to pick your spots and know your customer. You cant just blindly assume, that everyone else is an idiot and play accordingly. Like this guy, who overraised into an entire table of mostly solid 10NL regulars, and then massively overplayed his hand after the flop.

https://upswingpoker.com/replayer/6aHx6XI


However that being said a simple TAG strategy, which CTM mainly teach, still work fine in especially the lower end of the micros. Bet strong for value, dont pay off, dont bluff. This is still a solid starting point in games, where a lot of recreational players basically cant fold.

Its all well and good to understand advanced stuff like minimal defense frequenzy and blockers, but it does not change all that much to have Ad in your hand, if the fish will call your tipple barrel with 65 offsuit on Qd8d5s2d2c, because "LOL I have a pair", or "this guy is a bully, but he is not going to bluff me". And honestly this is still, how a lot of people play at 2NL and even at 5NL.

 

[Babis VGS]

Its all well and good to understand advanced stuff like minimal defense frequenzy and blockers, but it does not change all that much to have Ad in your hand, if the fish will call your tipple barrel with 65 offsuit on Qd8d5s2d2c, because "LOL I have a pair", or "this guy is a bully, but he is not going to bluff me". And honestly this is still, how a lot of people play at 2NL and even at 5NL.

I disagree on that part. I have bought everthing blackrain79 sells but that doesn't apply to NL2 anymore. There are rare occasions a massive whale will call you down with 3rd pair or less 3 or even 2 streets. CTM applies to NL2 ofc still but you need to bluff from time to time especially nit regs that are everywhere. Modern Small Stakes doesn't apply nowhere anymore. Blackrain79 is the bible as you are saying for NL2 but for NL5+ you need different stuff. If not in NL5 in NL10+ for sure.

 

[fundiver199]

Games play different from site to site or even depending on, what time of the day, it is. At 5NL SNAP on 888 poker I have been called down by bottom pair multible times in a situation like that in my example, until I basically stopped bluffing.

But sure there are also nits even at 2NL, that can be bluffed. You just need to know, who they are. Still as a generalization if you assume, that people at 2NL dont bluff and dont fold, this is a much better starting point than getting into the habit of always hero calling or trying to run advanced plays.

 

[maxi_j]

Stick to one game. And master it. And post hands.

Take all video advises with grain of salt. Try whats working on you limit today.

 

[ms.lawdog]

I folloiw both Jonathan Little and BlackRain79 online and find them both useful. With Jonathan's courses you will be exposed to a wide range of expertise, whereas with Nathan you will be getting his approach alone. I find that more helpful than with Jonathan though I go this site for new perspectives, such as GTO (I have decided I am not a fan; I'm not that much of a math guy for one thing, and for another GTO is not concerned so much as with winning money as with playing the ideal hand (there was a satirical songwriter in the 1960s (yes, I go back that far) who was also a mathematics professor at Harvard. He wrote a song called The New Math in which he declared that "it doesn't really matter what answer you get so long as you do the problem right." That's how I view GTO

Nathan's low-limit principles willk generally hold up as you progress upward in limits though you will find yourself tweaking what you do and how you do it rather than learning a whole new game. I find it helpful to watch Brad Owens' videos as he talks his way through the hands in real time so you can get some of the variations while still sticking with what works.

 

[TeUnit]

Blackrain for cash and Little for Mtts.

 

[Station_Master]

I folloiw both Jonathan Little and BlackRain79 online and find them both useful. With Jonathan's courses you will be exposed to a wide range of expertise, whereas with Nathan you will be getting his approach alone. I find that more helpful than with Jonathan though I go this site for new perspectives, such as GTO (I have decided I am not a fan; I'm not that much of a math guy for one thing, and for another GTO is not concerned so much as with winning money as with playing the ideal hand (there was a satirical songwriter in the 1960s (yes, I go back that far) who was also a mathematics professor at Harvard. He wrote a song called The New Math in which he declared that "it doesn't really matter what answer you get so long as you do the problem right." That's how I view GTO

Nathan's low-limit principles willk generally hold up as you progress upward in limits though you will find yourself tweaking what you do and how you do it rather than learning a whole new game. I find it helpful to watch Brad Owens' videos as he talks his way through the hands in real time so you can get some of the variations while still sticking with what works.

I think Nathan's stuff only works at the lowest stakes and once you've watched one or two of his videos you have basically seen them all, super basic and aimed at complete beginners.

JL is a proven crusher at both cash and MTTs and I would follow his advice over Nathan's any day.

 

[Aballinamion]

I’m trying to figure out where to spend my time in terms of study away from the table (figuratively... I only play online). I’ve been watching mostly Blackrain79 videos on YouTube to really understand his mindset. For those who have both watched the videos and read his book — is the info kind of redundant between the two? If you watch most of his videos, do you really need to read the book?

Now, I presently play 2NL and want to move up (of course) but still trying to get familiar with the cash game. I’ve played a fair bit in microstakes tourneys and SNGs but trying to develop my post-flop skills in cash games.

In today’s game, do you generally recommend Blackrain79 over Jonathan Little at these stakes? Does that opinion change as you move up in stakes? What are the similarities and differences between their approaches?

Would love to read your opinions before I put more time (and maybe money) into either of those resources...

I recommend neither of them. Nathan Williams was a very good poker player back in the long past where pokerstars was just launching the room, and that was 2003-2004. PokerStars used to donate USD 10 for anyone who made an account back there, so we assume the room was full of money to collect thousands of enthusiasts just wanted their deposits of free $ 10 and there where plenty of recreational players to exploit.
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems that professionals like Nathan Williams, John Anhalt and others, don't play poker for a very long time. The data of profit they show is a very old one and I don't see any new videos of they playing nowadays. Maybe I'm wrong.
Jonathan Little plays more tournaments and he has a very peculiar style of playing that doesn't fit to most of those who are beginners.
To be very honest, most of these guys just want to sell their material, books and videos, and they give you a piece of anything to encourage you to buy the full course, when, there is no guarantees that their methods will work on your basis reality.
For example, most of brazilians cannot play tournaments because it consumes a time that we don't own to spare. Most of brazilian work eight hours per day, five days per week at least, so when they will have time to study and play poker?
To conclude my thoughts I say it's better for you stick with just style and get a deep dive upon it. You have to choose between cash or SNGs, tournaments or other variants and apply to just one of them.
Cash is basically a postflop game where luck doesn't count so much. Tournament is more like a bingo, where we are almost always short stacked and counting with luck, because we do not have room to play a postflop game. Cash we can play and quit whenever we want to. Tournaments we must play for hours and deal with a very serious frustration, for we know that when we start to play dozens of tournaments per day, we are going to lose at least 70% of all the tables we open.

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Would love to read your opinions before I put more time (and maybe money) into either of those resources...

I'm not sure if you're familiar w/a player named Pete Clarke, but he has a training site (https://carrotcorner.com/) and a YouTube channel as well, if I'm not mistaken. He goes through low-stakes, cash-game hands that he's recorded and breaks them down street for street, decision by decision in a very straight forward manner. I came across him a couple of days ago and have been checking out all the "free" vids he offers. I recommend him to anyone here at the forum.
I recommend J. Little as well but I agree w/feisas7991 and fundiver, he's more for trny strategies.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Both of them are not good enough. Look for more advanced coaches who understand better gto strategy.

 

[NootNoot]

I'm not sure if you're familiar w/a player named Pete Clarke, but he has a training site (https://carrotcorner.com/) and a YouTube channel as well, if I'm not mistaken. He goes through low-stakes, cash-game hands that he's recorded and breaks them down street for street, decision by decision in a very straight forward manner. I came across him a couple of days ago and have been checking out all the "free" vids he offers. I recommend him to anyone here at the forum.
I recommend J. Little as well but I agree w/feisas7991 and fundiver, he's more for trny strategies.

There's a video coaching course of Pete Clarke's called From The Ground Up. It's hosted at Run It Once. I was subscribed to it earlier this year, paying $24.99 a month plus other videos at their basic level of sign up but never got round to getting through Clarke's course as I was very busy at the time and decided to let my sub lapse after around 3 months. I thought it was good from what I did get through and I'd read positive things about it before subbing. Looks like they're doing lifetime access to it for $49.99 right now, I might actually take that up.

I'm either going to do that or Scrimitzu's course next which is more expensive at $147.

For a completely random person that literally nobody will have heard of and best of all free, I stumbled across this youtube channel recently - https://www.youtube.com/@eggnocpoker/videos

There's some good content on there in my opinion, although I'm not good enough to truly say if he knows what he's talking about. He gives me the impression he does based off what I do know.

People send him small sessions of themselves playing and he critiques their play as well as there being some sessions of his own on there and some theory. I don't think he's a big time winning player or anything like that, but from where I am in the microstakes I feeling I'm learning things there.

 

[Poker Orifice]

There's a video coaching course of Pete Clarke's called From The Ground Up. It's hosted at Run It Once. I was subscribed to it earlier this year, paying $24.99 a month plus other videos at their basic level of sign up but never got round to getting through Clarke's course as I was very busy at the time and decided to let my sub lapse after around 3 months. I thought it was good from what I did get through and I'd read positive things about it before subbing. Looks like they're doing lifetime access to it for $49.99 right now, I might actually take that up.

I'm either going to do that or Scrimitzu's course next which is more expensive at $147.

For a completely random person that literally nobody will have heard of and best of all free, I stumbled across this youtube channel recently - https://www.youtube.com/@eggnocpoker/videos

There's some good content on there in my opinion, although I'm not good enough to truly say if he knows what he's talking about. He gives me the impression he does based off what I do know.

People send him small sessions of themselves playing and he critiques their play as well as there being some sessions of his own on there and some theory. I don't think he's a big time winning player or anything like that, but from where I am in the microstakes I feeling I'm learning things there.

I've got the Scrimitzu course 'Cash Game Hero'. It looks great (sadly I haven't dug into it yet... just barely started it). Years ago I would eat up stuff immediately... you couldn't pull me away from it. Now it's tough for me to get started.
I've got other poker stuff on the go (wanting to make a go of MTT's)... but keep getting pulled back to cash games (especially during the Christmas Holidays when the tables have been great (but I'm sure the MTT's have been even better, lol).

THe 2024 plan is put the time into Scrim's course as it really does look excellent. There's hours & hours of content.
I'll keep you posted once I get into it.
Edit: I'm getting into it again now, lol.

 

[Mac557]

When starting out, I think you can't go wrong with any content put out by an experienced coach and long-term winning player. Blackrain has his specialism though, and my vote would go for Jonathan Little. I am more of a book guy though and I've enjoyed the ones I read from Jonathan, so I'm partially biased there.

 

[Nathan Williams]

Jonathan Little puts out a lot of great stuff. I think he is one of the top poker coaches online these days so I would definitely recommend checking him out!

For me, I focus mostly on teaching small and mid stakes games. I teach a style which is heavily focused on keeping things as simple as possible at the poker table, and with a big focus on playing the player, and not so much your cards.

I also have a lot of total beginners (and people struggling at super low stakes) who watch my videos, so I focus a lot on the fundamentals like what hands to play, when to bet, raise and so on.

So, if you're already a successful high stakes pro, my videos probably aren't for you!

 

[Aballinamion]

Jonathan Little puts out a lot of great stuff. I think he is one of the top poker coaches online these days so I would definitely recommend checking him out!

For me, I focus mostly on teaching small and mid stakes games. I teach a style which is heavily focused on keeping things as simple as possible at the poker table, and with a big focus on playing the player, and not so much your cards.

I also have a lot of total beginners (and people struggling at super low stakes) who watch my videos, so I focus a lot on the fundamentals like what hands to play, when to bet, raise and so on.

So, if you're already a successful high stakes pro, my videos probably aren't for you!

Oh my God, you are around! I thought you have gave up on the forum. Sorry, I meant no offense to you or Jonathan Little, I was just trying to express something I noted (that it seems that you aren't playing a lot these days). lol

 

[Station_Master]

Oh my God, you are around! I thought you have gave up on the forum. Sorry, I meant no offense to you or Jonathan Little, I was just trying to express something I noted (that it seems that you aren't playing a lot these days). lol

I'm sure Nathan wont hold a grudge!

...Or maybe he will hunt you down and sit to your left and keep 3 betting you relentlessly!

 

[Funtast]

Why is Jonathan Little not answering?

 

[silentshowdown]

Jonathan Little puts out a lot of great stuff. I think he is one of the top poker coaches online these days so I would definitely recommend checking him out!

For me, I focus mostly on teaching small and mid stakes games. I teach a style which is heavily focused on keeping things as simple as possible at the poker table, and with a big focus on playing the player, and not so much your cards.

I also have a lot of total beginners (and people struggling at super low stakes) who watch my videos, so I focus a lot on the fundamentals like what hands to play, when to bet, raise and so on.

So, if you're already a successful high stakes pro, my videos probably aren't for you!

You're here – one of my favorite poker coaches!