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Message: [QUOTE="scifell, post: 435281, member: 12830"] "Guesswork" is exactly what you have resorted to on the river because of how you played it- you saved no money, and have to call an all in if you want to see his cards. I really dont understand how any play could have put you in a worse position. Yes, a check-call is correct on its face if you think you have part of your draw but maybe not all of it (like just the flush draw). But honestly, there are going to be very few tells here, through betting alone, that will allow you to distinguish which parts of this flop he is drawing to- given that you are out of position and only called him on the flop. You are drawing blind. You are correct to call your "partial draw" here iff your outs give you the probable best hand. In this situation, though, you dont know that and cant know that by calling him. [Remember, he raised a bet on a very scary flop.] Im 100% certain that if he was first to act, and you last, he would have played the hand in a very different way (almost no matter what he actually held), providing you with far more information on his hand. Seriously? I have trouble thinking of a situation where he could rightfully call- other than already having the nut flush. Your check-raise would have either killed his odds or committed him to the pot. He simply cannot rightfully just call you there. He has already contributed 10% of his stack to the pot, and your check-raise would rightfully demand another 30%. Then what, he is going to bet and call away 40% of his stack for one more card and fold to another bet on the turn? Are you kidding me? He would be obligated to fold or move all-in in most situations. *Shrug* It doesnt look like we are going to agree any time soon so Ill stop now... [/QUOTE]

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