Razz hand

[Jesus Lederer]

full tilt poker Game #378893161: Table Fulton - $3/$6 Ante $0.50 - Limit Razz - 17:20:25 ET - 2006/01/11
Seat 1: OneOldPisan ($127)
Seat 2: KyleJacobson ($160.50)
Seat 3: Jesus Lederer ($99.50)
Seat 4: Keldymeldy ($111.50)
Seat 5: ganesha9 ($93.50)
Seat 6: jerpoker ($81.50)
Seat 7: BigStackBenny ($106)
Seat 8: CandySweet ($51.50)
KyleJacobson antes $0.50
Keldymeldy antes $0.50
jerpoker antes $0.50
BigStackBenny antes $0.50
CandySweet antes $0.50
ganesha9 antes $0.50
OneOldPisan antes $0.50
Jesus Lederer antes $0.50
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to OneOldPisan [2s]
Dealt to KyleJacobson [6c]
Dealt to Jesus Lederer [3c Ah] [4d]
Dealt to Keldymeldy [As]
Dealt to ganesha9 [Ad]
Dealt to jerpoker [3s]
Dealt to BigStackBenny [5d]
Dealt to CandySweet [9d]
CandySweet is high with [9d]
CandySweet brings in for $1
OneOldPisan folds
KyleJacobson folds
Jesus Lederer completes it to $3
Keldymeldy calls $3
ganesha9 folds
jerpoker folds
BigStackBenny folds
CandySweet folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Jesus Lederer [3c Ah 4d] [7d]
Dealt to Keldymeldy [As] [4s]
Keldymeldy bets $3
Jesus Lederer raises to $6
Keldymeldy calls $3
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Jesus Lederer [3c Ah 4d 7d] [5c]
Dealt to Keldymeldy [As 4s] [3h]
Keldymeldy bets $6
Jesus Lederer raises to $12
Keldymeldy calls $6
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to Jesus Lederer [3c Ah 4d 7d 5c] [7s]
Dealt to Keldymeldy [As 4s 3h] [7c]
Keldymeldy bets $6
Jesus Lederer calls $6
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Jesus Lederer [3c Ah 4d 7d 5c 7s] [Jc]
Keldymeldy bets $6
Jesus Lederer calls $6
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Keldymeldy shows [Ts 6h As 4s 3h 7c 4h] (7,6,4,3,A)
Jesus Lederer shows [Jc 3c 4d 7d 5c 7s Ah] (7,5,4,3,A)
Jesus Lederer wins the pot ($68) with 7,5,4,3,A
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $71 | Rake $3
Seat 1: OneOldPisan folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: KyleJacobson folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: Jesus Lederer showed [Jc 3c 4d 7d 5c 7s Ah] and won ($68) with 7,5,4,3,A
Seat 4: Keldymeldy showed [Ts 6h As 4s 3h 7c 4h] and lost with 7,6,4,3,A
Seat 5: ganesha9 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: jerpoker folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: BigStackBenny folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: CandySweet folded on 3rd St.

Well, i know that i won the hand but i don´t know if i played correctly. I think i could either have lost the whole pot or won more bets. I´m going to analyze it street by street:

3rd Street: I had a really good hand. 4,3,A with 2 players showing an A and 1 showing a 3. Unfortunately there were a 6, a 5 and a 2 showing from other players. The question is: my complete was correct or should i have limped knowing that after me there were 4 players showing 5,3,A,A so anyone of those could complete and then i reraised? Probably i missed a bet here, but i would have been i serious trouble if i limped and everyone else did the same.

4th Street: The 7 seems pretty good. But damn, he got a 4. I held a 4, so this decreases the chance of his pairing his 4. Anyway there existed the chance, my hand was good and most likely i was ahead at the hand, so after he bet (which was an obvious bet even if he paired his 4, because he was showing better cards than me) i decided to raise to clarify the situation. When he just called i realized i was ahead at that point.

5th Street: Yeah a 5! But wait... he got a 3! damn... i held a 3 and 1 player also had it, so with 1 3 remaining the chances that he paired the 3 was really low. Most likely the 3 helped him, so i´m getting in trouble. At this point is very probably that i have already my hand made. 7,5,4,3,A. 2 cards remaining and only a 6 or a 2 (which would made the nuts) helps to improve my hand. That are 6 outs, 3 to make a monster and 3 to make the nuts. But at this point i don´t exactly know were i´m in the hand. He´s first to act and it´s obvious that he´s going to bet. After all he´s showing 4,3,A and i 7,5,4. I decided to raise to clarify for once at all if he was betting because he had a better hand than me, and if he didn´t, my raise would have been used as a value bet, which definitely he was going to call because he had at least 4 cards lower than 7, then pot was getting bigger and there were 2 cards to come. He called. Maybe he really had a pair of 4? This call increased those chances to me. He´s either trying to trap me or i´m really ahead at the hand.

6th Street: I didn´t expect to improve here. Had just 6 outs. What i really wanted was that he got a high card. But damn again, he got a 7. If he has a 2 in his whole cards i´m dead. Other way it´s a split pot or if he just have a 6 i win. There are those 3 chances and i trust my previous thinking that he has a pair. I´m getting afraid so after he´s obvious bet i decided to just call. Maybe here is were i made my biggest mistake. What would you have done here?

7th Street: Well, i didn´t improved my hand and most likely he didn´t do it neither. The key was at 6th Street, there both hands were made. The pot was big and there was a good chance that i was the winner. I decided to call.
Yeah i won! He had the 6 in his whole cards, which was the possibility that made me the winner (a 2 would make him the winner and a 5 would split the pot). What surprised me was that he didn´t had the pair of 4 by 4th Street. The 4 actually helped him, but he had a 10 in his whole cards!

What would you have done at each street? Any comment will help...

 

[t1riel]

I've never played Razz and I'm not sure how you play it so I'm afraid I can't give you much insight. I'm glad you won though.

 

[twizzybop]

Triel it is lowest hand wins with no straights or flushes.. basically stud/low..

Its a fun game by all means.. best hand of course is A,2,3,4,5.. face cards are basically what you don't want in your hand..

I have tried to analize this hand but since I haven't played much of besides on the PS2 on the wsop game at my brothers. I don't have alot of insight..

What I do see is Jesus has a great starting hand and the person he was up against had a 10 and had to draw from there.. taking a guess he drew his 6 at the river.. so he knew he was beat, tried to bet Jesus off the pot, and got lucky.

 

[robwhufc]

Triel it is lowest hand wins with no straights or flushes.. basically stud/low..

Its a fun game by all means.. best hand of course is A,2,3,4,5..

A,2,3,4,5 is a straight so this contradicts the first sentance. And JL won the pot, so the opponent wasn't that lucky.

JL, you're the resident Razz expert, so I don't think anybody will be able to give more insight than you already have! I think you played hand right - you had a good hand (i'm assuming hands as strong as yours are rare in Razz?) but not the best possible, so you called down to the river hoping you weren't beat. Your opponent must have known he was beat, so was putting the pressure on hoping you'd fold.

Edit - Oh I get it. You mean that A,2,3,4,5 isn't counted as a straight, not that you cant win with a straight or flush (that's how I read it first )

 

[twizzybop]

A,2,3,4,5 is a straight so this contradicts the first sentance
It doesn't count as a straight in razz.. straights never count in razz that's the beauty of the game.

 

[twizzybop]

Edit - Oh I get it. You mean that A,2,3,4,5 isn't counted as a straight, not that you cant win with a straight or flush (that's how I read it first )

Yep

 

[Grumbledook]

wow he played that badly

with regards to 3rd street I don't like to complete acting that early, if at all on 3rd

just calling the bring in hides the strength of the hand and will let more ppl in the pot, also means you lose less if you hit a brick on 4th

as to the reraise on 5th I first thought that this was bad but forgot that 75 low is generally rather good heads up

the rest of the hand played out ok, you can't be sure what his hole cards are, especially as he called a completed bet cold on 3rd street and got low cards the rest of the way

I wouldn't beat yourself up over it, think it played out rather well, I probably wouldn't have put the reraise in and if he didn't bet out he would have had a hard job calling to a raise (if he is sensible but we can rule this out as he called with a 10 on 3rd)

I tihnk calling down from that point was probably right as you never know with people you can't read ;]

 

[Jesus Lederer]

Interesting reply dook. You said a point that another player at the table said: he thought that completing at 3rd street was one of the worst plays at razz. He suggested to never complete at 3rd street. Is that right? I´m starting to understand the reasons of that, but still think that there are some good reasons to complete.
The reraise on 5th was to clarify my previous read and because as you said 75 is good heads up, altought generally a good pot with bets on each street ends with one player showing 6 high.
I know i couldn´t be sure what were his whole cards, but when he just called my reraises i interpreted it as if i were ahead in the hand (which i was), he was betting because the cards he showed and just called my reraises because he was either drawing or had a medium hand. In my opinion the key of the hand was that he just called my reraises instead of reraising. That gave me the most important information.
Thanks for your reply Grumble, now i´m going to fix that big leak in my game at 3rd street.

 

[Grumbledook]

I rarely complete on 3rd street, not anything I read just something I feel is the right play. At least at the lower limits.

First off it disguises your hand.
Doesn't lose too much money when you brick 4th and fold.
Less likely to scare people off on further streets.
Players tend to call along anyway most the time trying to hit, it rarely thins the field. Or if it does thin the field you will likely not win as much should you get a hand.