PLO hand

[Bombjack]

I'm not much good at Omaha but any advice on how I should have played this?

Btw give no significance to Hvymtl1's raise pre-flop - he was a maniac who potted it pre-flop every hand.

Hand 1064880973, Started at 29/09/2006 05:35
Table 'Santa Clara': $0.25-$0.25 Pot Limit OH (Real)
Seat 0: uh_huh0 ($53.70 in chips)
Seat 1: triple50 ($25.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Bart18 ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Hvymtl1 ($81 in chips)
Seat 4: BigHunter912 ($20.65 in chips)
Seat 5: STERGERON ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 6: suitedAKQJT ($2.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Bombjack_x ($17.35 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 8: KC198825 ($56.85 in chips)
Seat 9: slicknick316 ($7 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to Bombjack_x: [Kh][Kd][8d][10c]
KC198825 : Post Blind ($0.25)
slicknick316 : Post Blind ($0.25)
suitedAKQJT : Post Blind ($0.25)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
uh_huh0 : Call ($0.25)
triple50 : Fold
Bart18 : Call ($0.25)
Hvymtl1 : Bet ($1.75)
BigHunter912 : Raise ($3.25)
STERGERON : Fold
suitedAKQJT : Fold
Bombjack_x : Call ($3.25)
KC198825 : Fold
slicknick316 : Fold
uh_huh0 : Call ($3)
Bart18 : Call ($3)
Hvymtl1 : Call ($1.50)
*** Flop *** : [2c] [Ks] [4c]
uh_huh0 : Check
Bart18 : Check
Hvymtl1 : Check
BigHunter912 : Check
Bombjack_x : Bet ($5)
uh_huh0 : Fold
Bart18 : Fold
Hvymtl1 : Fold
BigHunter912 : Call ($5)
*** Turn *** : 9h
BigHunter912 : Check
Bombjack_x : Bet ($9.10)
Bombjack_x : All In ($9.10)
BigHunter912 : Call ($9.10)

 

[medeiros13]

I'm not sure if I push on the turn. I think you lead out with about a third to half the pot. There is a very real straight threat out there to compromise your trips along with a club flush draw. You could very well have the best hand right now with your trips but there's way too many threats to push all in IMO. A third to a half pot bet allows you to control the pot size while you see if you can hit a boat and allows you to grow the pot on the chance this guy is just bluffing

 

[Schatzdog]

I think you played it well.

You have to be ahead in the hand as it stands and you got all your chips in the middle. Why give odds to a drawer?

 

[medeiros13]

I think you played it well.

You have to be ahead in the hand as it stands and you got all your chips in the middle. Why give odds to a drawer?

How do you know he's drawing? There's 8 9 10 on the board and a potential flush draw. By the OP's own admission, this guy was a maniac..he could have anything. If the opponent has a made straight, then Bombjack is the one that's drawing. Maybe I'm too tight when I play Omaha but with all of these draws out there and the fact that your opponent is a maniac and will call regardless of pot odds...slow your play down.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the opponent was more of a TAG player.

 

[Bombjack]

The guy who re-raised pre-flop and who stuck around after the flop wasn't a maniac. The 8 and 10 are in my hand rather than on the board, so straight possibilities don't appear that great.

I could have potted it on the flop, which would have put me all-in, as the pot was about $19 by this point - would this have been a good idea?

My hand pre-flop isn't that great - Kings, one suited and a couple of medium cards - should I have binned it to the raise (presumably the second raiser would have pot-raised whether the first one did or not?)

 

[Stick66]

I'm just learning PLO, too.

If I said "Fold pre-flop, especially to the raise because your KK are too far from your 8-10 and you only have 2 of 1 suit (K8d) to be strong enough to warrant a call", how wrong would I be?

I might call $3.25 with KKJT double-suited, but not KK8T single-suited. Am I wrong?

 

[medeiros13]

I'm just learning PLO, too.

If I said "Fold pre-flop, especially to the raise because your KK are too far from your 8-10 and you only have 2 of 1 suit (K8d) to be strong enough to warrant a call", how wrong would I be?

I might call $3.25 with KKJT double-suited, but not KK8T single-suited. Am I wrong?

I can certainly see your point Mr. Sticker. Bombjack says to pay no mind to the first raise because he's a maniac..but there's a second raise by someone who isn't mentioned as TAG or LAG. I think I probably give up the hand myself but 3 broadway cards in a hand is usually a very good starting hand. It also doesn't bother me that the 8-10 is too far away from your K. In my mind, you've got 2 shots at a straight...10/K gives you a chance at nut straight and 8/10 gives you a shot at medium straight..not all bad. Those are my 2 cents anyway. How'd the hand turn out Bombjack???

 

[Bombjack]

I'll wait a little longer to see if there are any more responses before giving results.

I tend to agree MrSticker, the hand was a bit weak for calling the raise.

But as played, I suppose my main question is whether it's better with this sort of hand (i.e. top set, but possible flush / straight draws around) to pot it on the flop, or wait till the turn, if no scare cards come up? This situation was a bit unusual because the pot was so big already on the flop.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Bighunter has AAxx an absurd amount of the time here. Not sure I like preflop (calling a single raise would be reasonable, but the fact it's been raised in front of me twice is bothersome), but it's fine as played from there.

If villain has AA and a club draw I'd imagine he's repopping the flop, so it wouldn't surprise me if he turned up an AA hand with no protection/draws here.

But as played, I suppose my main question is whether it's better with this sort of hand (i.e. top set, but possible flush / straight draws around) to pot it on the flop, or wait till the turn, if no scare cards come up? This situation was a bit unusual because the pot was so big already on the flop.

As usual, 'it depends'. In this example the pot is large, you have a smallish stack left in front and nobody has shown any aggression postflop. You need to bet out as all kinds of weak drawing hands may well call you, and the pf reraiser has almost turned his cards up and said 'I have AAxx', which he probably isn't good enough to fold. Get value from your hand now, before a scare card (either for you or your opponenets) falls.

If the situation was different, you could be justified in calling someone who's betting into you while you gold this sort of hand, then repopping a safe turn. You need position and optimally a heads up pot to do this though, as allowing a 'free' card to so many hands is borderline suicidal.

 

[Bombjack]

Thanks for your thoughts Chris, and others...

So what we seem to be saying is, I played it correctly, apart from not folding pre-flop. That's pretty reassuring. Although I still keep losing at PLO.

Here's what happened:

*** Turn *** : [2c] [Ks] [4c] [9h]
BigHunter912 : Check
Bombjack_x : All In ($9.10)
BigHunter912 : Call ($9.10)
*** River *** : [6c]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $44.70 | Rake: $0.50
uh_huh0 lost $3.25
triple50 lost $0
Bart18 lost $3.25
Hvymtl1 lost $3.25
BigHunter912 bet $17.35, collected $44.70, net $27.35 Shows [5c] [As] [Ad] [3s] (a straight, six high)
STERGERON lost $0
suitedAKQJT lost $0.25
Bombjack_x lost $17.35 Shows [Kh] [Kd] [8d] [10c] (three Kings)
KC198825 lost $0.25
slicknick316 lost $0.25

So he would have won with an A, 6, 5, or 3 (12 outs), but that still makes me a big favourite on the turn, and he marginally didn't have odds to call.

 

[Welly]

Dealt to Bombjack_x: K♥K♦8♦10♣

Bart18 : Call ($0.25)
Hvymtl1 : Bet ($1.75)
BigHunter912 : Raise ($3.25)
STERGERON : Fold
suitedAKQJT : Fold
Bombjack_x : FOLDS

At a cash table this is a fold without a seconds thought, especially if guy is a maniac.

You're hoping on a prayer (at 13 times the big blind) for 2 flops:- Kxx or Adxdxd

If you miss these and maniac bets (likely) you are in a mess. Messy sh*t happens with messy hands in omaha.

 

[Welly]

O, you posted the result...$17.35 on the pre-flop decision

Unlucky mate.

ps hand selection is so much more relevant in Omaha than in Holdem.

 

[Bombjack]

Point taken... fold pre-flop. I'm still trying to get to grips with PLO (maybe I should read something on the subject). The river was a bit unlucky though... 3 times out of 4 I'd be up $27 rather than down $17.