How would you have played it?

[xdmanx007]

Position: Big Blind Hole Cards: Qs Jc Game NL Hold'em
Player 1 doubles blind
Player 2 calls
I call

Flop comes: 3c, Qh, Js

Player 1 bets half pot
Player 2 doubles player 1's bet
I call
Player 1 folds

Turn 6s
I bet half pot
Player 2 calls

River Ac
I bet the pot
Player 2 calls

Her cards: Ace Jack
Mine: Queen Jack
She wins

Now I slowplayed the flop, and it cost me on the river. Only 2 adjustments I can think I could have made are to have heavily bet the flop. most likely would have gotten called. Or bet the turn heavy. Now I bet the turn but only about half pot. I was actually trying to keep my opponent in the hand because I was only worried about a set and I was pretty confident she had ace jack which she did. Question is at what point is the pot large enough to go ahead and take down? In hindsight I think I would have gotten called regardless of my bet just not real sure how I SHOULD have played it different.

 

[Schatzdog]

Two things I can think of:

1. If you put her on AJ why did you bet the pot when the A hit on the River? You must have known that would've been called.

2. In hindsight you can say you should have bet real big on the flop to shut it down, but you don't know. Still, your read was great and you didn't get value for it.
I think alot also comes down to knowing how she plays and knowing how she plays aces in particular if you have that info.

 

[Devilpoker78]

I dont think you did anything wrong, the fact that she raised the 1st caller might mean that she would have called your raise anyway. Schatz is right, you didnt get value for your read and you should have folded as soon as the ace flopped but I guess you were already pot commited at that time. From what you told me I can tell shes a loose caller cause she had only top pair and there was one overcard on the board. The heavy bet on the turn would have discouraged me from going further but unfortunately not this fish. The only other alternative would be to go all in on the flop with top 2 pair, but I dont think that is something that you will likely do, cause Ive seen alot of people crash out to trips doing this.

 

[MicheleW]

I think you didn't go all in on the flop or turn when there was betting - you had two pair. She sounds like a "caller" and probably a limit type player just waiting to improve her hand which she did and beat you. She knew she could wait for an A. I don't know how skilled she was but if you bet all in, I'd think you definately had trips. But, you initial betting didn't tell me that - but you could have been slow playing and limping in.

Its better to win a small pot sooner and win the pot than to lose a large pot to poor betting later.

If you went all in and she won - at least you TOLD her you had the best hand at that point and it was up to her to risk her chips on the turn or river. You just let her go along for the ride and win anyway.

And pot committed ? once the chips are in the middle - they don't belong to you anymore so how can you be pot committed.

 

[xdmanx007]

ok she was a tight passive player. Didn't play alot of hands and didn't play them aggressive. I should have been more specific about my read. I put her on Ace Queen or Jack meaning I thought an ace was the only card that could beat me although the smooth call on the turn did throw me a little. Stakes NL100 on Party the hand hit my stack for about 60 bucks. Basically I called the flop with the intention of firing on the turn which I did but I intended to bring her along for the ride, I really thought that board looked GREAT for top 2 pair on the flop to win it. In hindsight I probably should have fired harder on the turn but I still KILLED any drawing odds she may have had. The reason for the river bet was deception, I felt I was beat but I wanted her to think that ace helped me as well as helping her. Well given the same hand again I would probably play it close to the same with just a bit larger bet on the turn cause at that point the pot was large enought to take down profitably.

 

[MicheleW]

Profitably?? That's where people get confused in my opinion. Why does the pot have to be profitable - why not just win it. Any "won" pot is profitable. You LOST so it was NOT profitable at all. The only time you should be making the pot profitable is when you KNOW you have the nuts! ... and you knew you didn't have the nuts. Hmmm??

I love to hear how people analyze these things, it sure gives me great insight. I know you guys probably don't even read my (what does a woman know) posts but I sure do read yours! LOL

 

[xdmanx007]

Well in a tiny nutshell:stupid: Michele profitably simply tells you how I look at the game. To me poker isn't about winning pots it is about making money! I know you have to win pots to make money. Point is when there is an opportunity to drag a BIG pot instead of a small one I am going to try for it. I am not one to contest small pots very often.:dancing:

 

[MicheleW]

Very interesting....

 

[chicubs1616]

Your opponent might fold here if you push all your chips in after his raise on the flop or you push on the turn. You want to get called here since you will win a large majority of the time.

 

[Grumbledook]

from the sounds of it a raise on the flop would have still gotten a call, if it didn't the pot was still worth winning at that point anyway

a call on the flop would have allowed you to put a bigger bet in on the turn to take it down

your right about winning big pots rather than winning lots of pots, thing is its better to win the pot than to lose a bigger one ;]

its finding the balance thats the problem

 

[MicheleW]

Xdm and Grum think I said its better to win LOTS of pots ... I didn't, I said its better to win the pot than LOSE the pot like Xdm did. LOL No profits in losing the pot.

Sometimes its hard for some people to admit they didn't play something correctly. But I understand that.

 

[xdmanx007]

hmmmm interesting:wink:

 

[Four Dogs]

It's not how many pots you win that counts, it's how much money. I think you were on the right track XD.It seems to me that as the hand progresses, your opponent has an ever decreasing chance of filling an out and your desire to take down the pot should also decrease. Provided your giving them just the wrong odds to call. That extra bet on the end, though small, will be more than enough to cover the cost of those times you lose out.
That said, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING betting the pot on the river?

 

[xdmanx007]

The bet on the river served 2 purposes. Just in case I was wrong and she didn't have what I thought I wasn't giving her a free ride. Another reason by showing strength I kept my opponent from making a huge bet on the river that I surely would have to call, plus with what I thought she had the only way I win the hand is getting her to fold. Now that I have calmed down the bets I made thru the hand had positive expectation so I did the correct thing except for maybe firing a little harder sooner. I am fairly aggressive in ring games and had previously pushed her around a little, so I am pretty sure that she decided she was gonna pay to see my cards that time and she just plain got lucky. Took the night off from cards tonight cause for 2 straight nights my opponents hit 1 of their 3 possible outs on me which is VERY uncommon plus I needed to calm down :beerglass Although you could easily argue I made a strategic error in the hand by not overbetting the flop or turn technically she was the one who played incorrectly but simply got lucky, I win that hand many many more times than I lose it so would probably play the hand very similarly the next time.

 

[Devilpoker78]

Pot commited generally means you have already decided on the most part that you are gonna go all the way to the showdown at a certain stage during the deal. For example you have 2500 chips and already bet 1,500 chips into the pot. Your opponent now bets 250 on the river. In this case you have already put more than half your chips in the pot, yes im not saying it still belongs to you. Although you are not sure if your hand is a sure win you nevertheless are pot commited i.e. you have already staked so much chips so you are gonna call the last 250 since folding here would not make sense. Don't mistake this for weak play, alot of people try to bluff their way in and once it doesnt work and theyve bet too much they just go all in, that is plain stupidity and not pot commited. If I know my opponent has me I will definitely fold no matter how much Ive commited to the pot. Oh well, there you go, poker from an amatuer's point of view. Hope that explains what I said Michele.

And yes but for a few exceptions, women can't play poker, they are.... better at other things. :girlshit: :dancing2: Jk :help:

 

[KK_Cowboy]

My two cents

I don't totally dislike the call on the flop after 2 people bet, but personally I would have re-raised. By the turn, with the cards on the board that there were, I would have been all-in. It's one thing to get your money in with the best of it and lose. It's another to payoff someone when they have you beat.

 

[bradf024]

Top two pair on the flop! make a strong bet over the top. what would be a good flop for you with that hand! It was a rainbow too put the pressure on the inferior hands to make a loose call, he would have laid down that AJ