AK from cut-off

[loopmeister]

I'm struggling with AK play when I don't get a piece of the flop. This is a typical hand that gets me confused as to what to do:

** Game ID 17798138 starting - 2007-02-08 17:05:44
** On Request [Hold 'em] (2.00|4.00 No Limit - Cash Game) real money

- Sparrowhawk sitting in seat 1 with $93.03
- onecardkid sitting in seat 2 with $1052.71
- loopy sitting in seat 3 with $386.00
- lil_nicki sitting in seat 4 with $161.00 [Dealer]
- TaKe4rMu sitting in seat 5 with $134.25
- NickSA sitting in seat 6 with $549.76
- RavenJ7 sitting in seat 7 with $242.03
- PLH444 sitting in seat 8 with $60.13

TaKe4rMu posted the small blind - $2.00
NickSA posted the big blind - $4.00
Sparrowhawk posted to play - $4.00
** Dealing card to loopy: King of Spades, Ace of Spades
RavenJ7 folded
PLH444 folded
Sparrowhawk checked
onecardkid called - $4.00
loopy raised - $16.00 (Standard raise)
lil_nicki folded
TaKe4rMu folded
NickSA called - $16.00
Sparrowhawk folded
onecardkid called - $16.00

** Dealing the flop: Jack of Diamonds, 9 of Spades, 6 of Hearts
NickSA checked
onecardkid checked
loopy bet - $15.00 other players showed weakness / slowpaying. Std Continuaton bet.
NickSA called - $15.00
onecardkid folded

** Dealing the turn: 4 of Hearts
NickSA checked

Okay. So Villian didn't go away and the turn hasn't helped me; and he's checked the turn. I'm guessing he has a smaller pocket pair or is slowplaying a jacks. Now the big question:

Do I fire again and risk feeling like a chump for throwing away chips, or just check here and show weakness?

 

[ChuckTs]

** Game ID 17798138 starting - 2007-02-08 17:05:44
** On Request [Hold 'em] (2.00|4.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Sparrowhawk sitting in seat 1 with $93.03
- onecardkid sitting in seat 2 with $1052.71
- loopy sitting in seat 3 with $386.00
- lil_nicki sitting in seat 4 with $161.00 [Dealer]
- TaKe4rMu sitting in seat 5 with $134.25
- NickSA sitting in seat 6 with $549.76
- RavenJ7 sitting in seat 7 with $242.03
- PLH444 sitting in seat 8 with $60.13

TaKe4rMu posted the small blind - $2.00
NickSA posted the big blind - $4.00
Sparrowhawk posted to play - $4.00
** Dealing card to loopy: King of Spades, Ace of Spades
RavenJ7 folded
PLH444 folded
Sparrowhawk checked
onecardkid called - $4.00
loopy raised - $16.00 (Standard raise) With two limpers, I like a bigger raise; $20+
lil_nicki folded
TaKe4rMu folded
NickSA called - $16.00
Sparrowhawk folded
onecardkid called - $16.00

** Dealing the flop: Jack of Diamonds, 9 of Spades, 6 of Hearts
NickSA checked
onecardkid checked
loopy bet - $15.00 other players showed weakness / slowpaying. Std Continuaton bet. $15 into a $50 pot - that's way too small. I like either a bigger bet (say $20-$30) or just a check. I don't know what your reads are but he could be just calling down with a jack, or he could have QT or 88, maybe a set. You're very much in the dark when a player check-calls for this little bet.
NickSA called - $15.00
onecardkid folded

** Dealing the turn: 4 of Hearts
NickSA checked

I think this is read-dependent, but in general or against an unknown, I'm just giving up here. You could get gutsy and throw out a solid 2/3 pot bet here, but the pot's huge now and I much prefer to see that strong bet on the flop.

See bold red.

I'm blabbering, but in summary I didn't like your c-bet because it wasn't big enough to define anyones hand. As I mentioned I think we also need reads to make a solid decision here.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Less than 1/3 pot into 2 other players is not a "standard continuation bet". If you're going to c-bet, bet more so that if you do get called you can assume he has something (certainly on this relatively drawless board it's hard to imagine he could have any strong drawing hand, so we have to assume he has some sort of made hand) and safely check-fold.

As it is he could have called your weak c-bet with anything from a set to a gutshot.

 

[mrsnake3695]

As played, take the free card and hope for the best. If you don't hit, fold to a big bet on the river as he likely has you beat.

 

[alan1983]

I agree with aboce posters. Flop bet was terrible (smaller than your preflop bet!!!!!!!!!), but since it kept pot small, id check turn since making another stab at it now is costlier, and hope for a good card on river.

 

[ginNjuice]

I have to agree with Chuck here. I'd say 20-24 preflop is a good bet and might take it down to 1 caller instead of 2. If you do get 2 callers bet atleast half the pot if you're going to make a continuation bet. How would you have bet the hand if you had AA or KK, or if you hit a set? If you're going to bet when you completely miss I'd recommend playing it the same as if you hit the flop real hard. A check on the flop might have been a good play and if they check around to you again then take a stab at the pot. I got into the habbit of overplaying my AK's for a while and it started to cost me alot of money to players that picked up on this, so be careful with your continuation bets and even if you hit your pair on the turn look out for 2 pair from KQ's, KJ's, and the like (obviously not a specific thought for this hand). How did this play out?

As for this hand I'd just give up and hope it checks down to the river in hopes of hitting an A, K or maybe even having a high card hold up.

 

[tenbob]

Pre-flop is fine, if your gonna c/bet then bet it correctly, your flop bet is terrible unless the table has been routinely folding to small bets on the flop. Check fold the turn, dont even consider putting another penny in unless you happen to hit, then id attempt to keep the pot small.

 

[loopmeister]

Coolio.

Just to summarise the advice from the two AK threads then (to make sure I've got it):
- PF: more people in pot = bigger raise
- Bigger c-bets: at least half the pot.
- If you hit, bet around the pot because at these limits draws are like stepping in fresh dog crap -- tough to shake off.
- More than 3 people in the pot means you're probably behind if you don't hit (They've now all called a BIG PF raise). Check/Fold to a biggish bet.

For the curious:
I checked the turn; the river didn't help. Villian bet 1/2 pot. I folded. He showed QK for king high. Well played to him.

 

[joosebuck]

- PF: more people in pot = bigger raise

not necessarily. but if you don't raise much be ready to ditch the hand if you dont connect.