$5 NL HE 6-max: Two pairs on the river vs. agro BB

[puzzlefish]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.02/$.05

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

After some pretty normal hands, I am back and looking for input as to how to best get value in this spot.

I get 3bet from BB and I am thinking he is probably trying to agro-defend because I have been stealing blinds pretty consistently from BTN. But at the same time, the villain is a long time grinder (1M+ hands) so I do not think he will do this with air. I am thinking maybe a mid to high pocket pair. Here is the hand:

pokerstars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $8.04 (161 bb)
MP: $11.92 (238 bb)
CO: $5.09 (102 bb)
BU (Hero): $4.25 (85 bb)
SB: $5.07 (101 bb)
BB: $7.48 (150 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with K♦ J♣
3 players fold, Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, BB 3-bets to $0.60, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.22) 2♠ 7♣ 3♦ (2 players)
BB bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45

Turn: ($2.12) K♥ (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

River: ($4.12) J♦ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.98, BB folds


(the usual preamble here: I don't play with a full stack intentionally)

 

[Aballinamion]

1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.06, MP 3-bets to $0.10, 4 players fold, Hero 4-bets to $0.30, BB calls $0.28, 1 fold, MP calls $0.20

time, the villain is a long time grinder (1M+ hands) so I do not think he will do this with air.

Good to see you posting your hands again mate. First, why do you think it’s better to play with a broken stack? Do you like to win less when you go for a full stack situation? Your intention is to make other players think that you are a disguised “fish”???
Have you ever heard about meta-thinking? You can fool one or other fish, those who pay attention just to a few details but have no idea what to do with them. A regular will look to your stack sizing but also to the way you play preflop and postflop, so a broken stack won’t deceive anyone and in the long run we are just losing/not letting ourselves get more blinds.
That being said, villain has played over 1 million hands, do you have this information from HUD or because the player is using some PokerStars badge? (Like TT badge for example).
I will consider this player a normal aggro fish, and amount of hands doesn’t mean the player is decent: one can play billions of hands and yet be a total loser.
As played, preflop, turn and river are completely fine. I’m trying to understand what is your problem with this particular hand.

Best regards;

 

[Sopt]

I think the hand was played OK and you couldn't have extracted more value there. Once your opponent stopped betting on river I'd assume he either has nothing or he has read that he's beat and gave up, because he doesn't see your folding to hit bets on river.
At the same time I also don't see him calling your re-raise on turn if you opted for that option (which I wouldn't have myself).
4-betting him preflop would also be an option, but I don't believe KJ is strong enough hand for that, even if you're in position and he could just fold there if you did it, so again less value.

 

[Station_Master]

Nice result, but I would have just folded pre,its too likely you are dominated by a better hand, e.j. AJ, Kq etc. Better to defend suited hands and pairs.

I have made this type of assumption before, I.e. villain is 3betting light as I am stealing alot, but probably he just woke up with a hand and is not that observant to your steal percentage.

 

[Aballinamion]

Nice result, but I would have just folded pre,its too likely you are dominated by a better hand, e.j. AJ, Kq etc. Better to defend suited hands and pairs.

I have made this type of assumption before, I.e. villain is 3betting light as I am stealing alot, but probably he just woke up with a hand and is not that observant to your steal percentage.

Yes, we can call and fold these off-suited combos in some frequency, but considering that BU is often stealing the blinds with a bunch of hands, and BB is often 3-betting light versus steal to defend the blinds, I see we calling here 40% of times.
If we consider villain is an aggro-tard, we are calling even more.
Suited hands are best to defend, indeed, but we must keep in mind that we have just 1% more equity when we are defending them.
And I rather be calling down a 3-bet with JTo than calling with 22-77, whether we are basically waiting to setmine or a lucky flop.

 

[Station_Master]

Yes, we can call and fold these off-suited combos in some frequency, but considering that BU is often stealing the blinds with a bunch of hands, and BB is often 3-betting light versus steal to defend the blinds, I see we calling here 40% of times.
If we consider villain is an aggro-tard, we are calling even more.
Suited hands are best to defend, indeed, but we must keep in mind that we have just 1% more equity when we are defending them.
And I rather be calling down a 3-bet with JTo than calling with 22-77, whether we are basically waiting to setmine or a lucky flop.

Fair point, it is a defend in theory.

But in theory BB is 3betting 13% or so, whereas your average 5NL reg is not. So I think it's best to fold, but calling is not too bad.

Is it only 1% more equity with suited hands? Anyway it's not just the raw equity, it's the fact they can make flushes that are very strong and can win a stack, plus the playability post flop.

 

[Aballinamion]

Fair point, it is a defend in theory.

But in theory BB is 3betting 13% or so, whereas your average 5NL reg is not. So I think it's best to fold, but calling is not too bad.

Is it only 1% more equity with suited hands? Anyway it's not just the raw equity, it's the fact they can make flushes that are very strong and can win a stack, plus the playability post flop.

Real good points you made, and I like debating to you because you are always rational and respectful.
You are right, most of 3-bets at the micros are for value and 13% isn’t a huge number. Plus, this 1% equity can allow us to make nutted flushes postflop and go to stacks, which is something to note.
Thanks again for your attention and cordiality.

Best regards;

 

[puzzlefish]

Ok, first of all thanks for all the responses. I read them but just am going to quote ones where I need to respond.

First, why do you think it’s better to play with a broken stack? Do you like to win less when you go for a full stack situation? Your intention is to make other players think that you are a disguised “fish”???
Have you ever heard about meta-thinking? You can fool one or other fish, those who pay attention just to a few details but have no idea what to do with them. A regular will look to your stack sizing but also to the way you play preflop and postflop, so a broken stack won’t deceive anyone and in the long run we are just losing/not letting ourselves get more blinds.

I find that if I keep reloading, I am more likely to tilt and lose more money than I want in a session. Losing an entire stack lets me keep in mind how much I have lost. I kind of wish there was a tracker on the screen on Stars for how much you are down in a session.

I do also consider that other players may think that I am just a fish that doesn't know how to play just because my stack is broken. It works, actually a lot of the time.

That being said, villain has played over 1 million hands, do you have this information from HUD or because the player is using some PokerStars badge? (Like TT badge for example).

I got this information from his AA badge.

I’m trying to understand what is your problem with this particular hand.

My problem is mostly with the river, and whether I may have bet too much with half pot. I may have also thrown the tissue box at him after I bet, which may have given away him being dead in the water.

My other question is about the flop and how much can we call when we miss the flop but have two overcards. This amount looked okay this time, but sometimes the cbet can be intimidating.

Once your opponent stopped betting on river I'd assume he either has nothing or he has read that he's beat and gave up, because he doesn't see your folding to hit bets on river.

Yes, or alternatively is hoping to induce a bluff or looking for an opportunity to bluff a weak river bet.

BB is often 3-betting light versus steal to defend the blinds, I see we calling here 40% of times.
If we consider villain is an aggro-tard, we are calling even more.

But, as mentioned above, what $ amount can we justify calling for a cbet on this kind of flop with two overcards?

And I rather be calling down a 3-bet with JTo than calling with 22-77, whether we are basically waiting to setmine or a lucky flop.

Yes, there is another way to measure whether to call or not with smaller pocket pairs that we want to setmine with. For me, I like to see if there is at least 10x that I can get back from the villains' stack if I call.

 

[Aballinamion]

I find that if I keep reloading, I am more likely to tilt and lose more money than I want in a session.

We play to win not to lose. If you are afraid of losing more than you can afford, you should review your bankroll and accept fate, playing only limits where you can lose 1, 2, 10 buy-ins out of worries or concerns.
Your fear of losing end up making you win less in the long run (which is also losing: you go for all-in having just 80 BB, and win the pot, you let 20 BB aside. Now do the calculations for just 100 hands that you go for stacks, losing only 5 BB on each hand).

I do also consider that other players may think that I am just a fish that doesn't know how to play just because my stack is broken. It works, actually a lot of the time.

Good to you that is working. Many players aren’t even looking to the stack sizing but the hand they have. Your choice.

I got this information from his AA badge.

If this guy has AA badge he played more than 10 million hands, and what actually this villain is doing playing micro-stakes once it has so huge quantity/experience???

My problem is mostly with the river, and whether I may have bet too much with half pot.

This is a good point, maybe you should’ve bet less to induce calls, not 2 BB, but an amount that would make the opponent embarrassed not to call, to make the opponent feel like a fish if he folds. So, going for 6 BB to 10 BB maybe, and just maybe would have the expected effect.

My other question is about the flop and how much can we call when we miss the flop but have two overcards.

Depends on the flop and preflop action. Overall we are calling smaller bets, 1/4, 1/3 of pot when we missed flop having AK, AQ, KQ, KJ, and all the broadways. Calling larger bets might commit us to the pot having 6 outs to come, so we must have a solid strategy. Floating wouldn’t work many times at the micros for players use to overcall.

 

[gustav197poker]

On the river villain is in a very difficult situation on this dry board. You called 3-bet from Co and then called on the flop and turn. Here we could expect V to call us with aces trying to trap us, but the question is: what hands do we have? It's hard to believe Villain thinks we're bluffing too much here, when we're actually representing a tighter range. In fact now it makes a lot of sense that we have sets and that we have played them passive in previous streets.
The J OTR is also good for us, because if we're somehow leveling with an aggressive opponent, it's good to block JJ, as an aggressive V could have played like that and checked on the river to induce bets.
We're also blocking AK a bit, which makes QQ look weaker in V range. So when we only expect V to call us with aces or at most pocket queens, maybe we can do a smaller size, like 1/4-1/3 pot, so that V suspects that sometimes we can ever try, with some random hand like 99 or TT.
Greetings.

 

[puzzlefish]

Thanks for the comments - I will try 1/3 or 1/4 river bets in these spots in the future to see if I get some calls.

If this guy has AA badge he played more than 10 million hands, and what actually this villain is doing playing micro-stakes once it has so huge quantity/experience???

I think it comes to the number of players and skill level. Beyond 5NL there is maybe 10NL but higher than that there are very few players and most certainly they are more skilled than at 5NL. Most of the money to be won is down at 2NL and 5NL IMHO.

 

[makisaa]

There are occasions that I would try to play KJo and call the opponent 's high bet. But after that flop the opponent continues to put big bets. Most of the times I would fold there. Generally you played at the edge and the opponent makes the mistake to check at the river after the big bets at the previous stages, so your big bet makes him to fold. Nice play!