€400 NL HE Full Ring: Tricky Preflop Spot w/ Several Limpers

[kdmeteor]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$2/$4

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

Currency

€

I usually wouldn't post a preflop question because you can generally figure them out by looking at the right charts, but in this case, I haven't found anything that comes close. (Maybe a good solver could answer this? I actually don't have access to a solver that allows me to put in custom ranges, but tell me if there is a good option.) Also there might be exploitative adjustments; the field is very weak. (As usual, it's in a casino.)

Hero is in the SB with and a stack of 136€ = 34 BB (everyone else has a larger stack). UTG+2 and Lojack both limp (4€). BN bets 20€. BN is a splashy player who straddles every time UTG and bets 20€ constantly; he bets 20€ first in, after a limper, after 2 limpers, doesn't matter. Also with a pretty wide range. I've 3-bet him a lot (always to 3x size), I don't think he folded a single time, though he has folded to all-ins before. I don't know if the limpers are tricky or not; I need to pay more attention to this. I can say that there's been a lot of limp-calling that evening though; I'd expect both limpers to call the bet.

Going all-in here probably makes no sense because then BN would probably start folding their worst hands and call with the rest, and that seems like the worst possible outcome. Stack is too small to 3-bet non-allin. So is this a case where cold-calling from the SB makes sense after all? I'll probably play a 4-way pot with A5s, which doesn't sound so bad even first in. Especially since these people play multi way pots really poorly and the rake is only about 3%. Or just fold?

This actually is a spot that comes up a lot; there's lots of limp-limp-limp or limp-limp-raise type situations, and I'm not quite sure how to handle them especially from the SB.

 

[Station_Master]

In this type of spot call is normally the worst of the 3 options. You will be out of position with a hand that's often dominated and you are getting poor pot odds. In this exact situation it's even worse as you dont have the stack depth to win a big pot if you hit the flush.

Your options here are basically 3bet all-in or fold.

I think it's close, I probably lean towards 3bet shove. You would be risking $134 to win $34 and even when called you should have ok equity - basically 35% or so as either your Ace or 5 should be live, plus your wheel and flush draw.

It does depend how bad the button is, if really bad he might call you with KQ or 44 and you get your money in flipping or slightly ahead.

Anyway let's say half the time you get called and half the time you get it through, you win

0.5 x $34 = $17
+
0.5 x(0.35 x $275 - $134) = -$18.5

For total EV of -$1.5
So pretty close, you really need then to fold more than half the time to make this profitable. If the button is wide and the others straightforward then you probably do pick this up more than half the time.

Overall 3bet shove or fold, just dont call!

 

[fundiver199]

As Station_Master say, its a jam or fold spot. For a jam to be profitable, BTN need to have some sort of fold button and not give you action with hands like small pairs or slightly better aces like A6s or A8o. If you are always getting snapped by those hands, then just fold and wait for a better spot. Its not like, A5s is some sort of monster, which we just always have to play. Its an excellent bluffing hand preflop and its great for overflushing someone, when we are deep. But here you are shallow and with questionable fold equity.

 

[kdmeteor]

Mhh I guess I agree. I do think people who are used to online play underestimate how bad people play multiway pots live, but yeah given that I'm also short stacked it's probably not enough to call. Will probably fold next time; I do think BN would call hands like A8o.

 

[fundiver199]

I definitely dont like calling here, because the limpers will likely come along as well, and then you are 4-ways out of position in a 80€ pot with only 114€ left behind. The most common way, you will connect, will be with top pair bad kicker, and then what? Are you going to check-fold? Or stack off just praying, that somehow your hand is good? If you are only trying to make two pair or better, then you need significantly more stack depth to make this profitable.

A shove is probably also a slightly losing play or at least very close to breakeven. But you could still make it from the point of view, that if you get action, you either dubble up, or you bust and have a natural opportunity to rebuy and get into the game with a deeper stack. I dont know, why you started this hand with only 34BB, but generally this is not something, we want to do in cash games.

 

[Suns of Beaches]

With 100BB u could just call and see what the flop brings. So my suggestion would be to not play cash games with a broken stack.

In this case im leaning towards a fold but if he was doing this constanty and u think the limpers are weak then u could definitely shove there.