$25 PLO: call or fold?

[soadwes]

What do you think? (BTW, this is omaha...)

***** Hand History for Game 3033268904 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, November 14, 00:56:47 EDT 2005
Table Table 65412 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: BCNP_PET_511 ( $28 )
Seat 5: glfnphl ( $46.30 )
Seat 6: Jackpotslim ( $26.46 )
Seat 7: rockyty7 ( $10.45 )
Seat 9: TacoFlavored ( $21.77 )
Seat 10: davidweinfel ( $33.46 )
Seat 8: THEUNCOOLER ( $25.03 )
Seat 3: soadwes1 ( $25 )
Seat 1: TrainmanDK ( $22.15 )
Seat 4: StilChippin ( $19.25 )
BCNP_PET_511 posts small blind [$0.10].
soadwes1 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to soadwes1 [ Ts 6c 5s Th ]
StilChippin folds.
glfnphl calls [$0.25].
Jackpotslim calls [$0.25].
rockyty7 folds.
THEUNCOOLER folds.
TacoFlavored calls [$0.25].
davidweinfel raises [$0.50].
TrainmanDK folds.
BCNP_PET_511 folds.
soadwes1 calls [$0.25].
glfnphl calls [$0.25].
Jackpotslim calls [$0.25].
TacoFlavored calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, Tc, Kc ]
soadwes1 checks.
rockyty7: just prayin that the board pairs
soadwes1: me too
glfnphl bets [$0.50].
Jackpotslim calls [$0.50].
TacoFlavored calls [$0.50].
davidweinfel raises [$4].
StilChippin: no chance god plays hold em
soadwes1 folds.
glfnphl folds.
Jackpotslim folds.
TacoFlavored folds.
davidweinfel does not show cards.
davidweinfel wins $7.90

 

[t1riel]

I would have called here. You still had two cards to go and you hit your set. Sure, the other player might have the flush (or flush draw) but you're one card away from a four of a kind or a full house. I would fold if the turn was another club and the other player raised it even more.

 

[soadwes]

The chances of hitting fullhouse/four of a kind are pretty low and 4 dollars was a good sized raise... he could posible have KK with a raise preflop or flush draw, which is higher chance of hitting flush over my boat. I pussied out of the hand for sure, but i just wasnt sure. I'm better off seeing another hand with better chance of winning than losing big $. It was still a draw from the flop... omaha is always a draw on the flop... Anyone else have $0.02 to spare?

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

TT65 is junk, fold preflop. Yes, even considering the odds you're getting, simply because there are so few flops you're really going to like, and you could be tempted into wrongly playing marginal situations like the one you found yourself in.

Considering you didn't fold, the flop fold is fine - there aren't many turn cards you're going to like seeing.

 

[KidHavok]

i agree with dorkus, why play junk, and if you are going to play junk, when you make your hand why not gamble

 

[chicubs1616]

Fold preflop.

If you are going to play TT65 in Omaha, the only reason (which is a bad reason) is to hit a set... Now you hit your set and you are afraid of a set of K's... Usually an overcard will flop if you hit a set of tens, also flush draws and straight draws occur almost every hand in Omaha. If you are willing to play a TT hand preflop, I think you make the call here, you are ahead of a drawing hand here and the only hand you are behind is KKxx.

But again, fold preflop.

 

[xdmanx007]

Well since you in the hand.... You can't dump a set there is only 1 hand that has you beat---ReRaise! you just nailed a monster you are very likely to have the best hand. Only reason to fold the flop is if you really think he has pocket kings. So there tbh is a choice here but it isn't call or fold it is fold or reraise!

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Pretty interesting discussion - I can see where xdman is coming from here, but I still disagree.

[22:16] <xdmanx007> Well Chris could temm me why that one hand is marginal in omaha postflop
[22:17] <Qhr1s0> [22:16] <xdmanx007> Well Chris could temm me why that one hand is marginal in omaha postflop
[22:17] <Qhr1s0> hm
[22:17] <Qhr1s0> that one soadwes posted?
[22:17] <xdmanx007> yeh set of 10's
[22:17] <xdmanx007> is marginal?
[22:19] <Qhr1s0> you're gonna hate it if any club, A, K, Q, J, maybe 9 hits
[22:19] <Qhr1s0> that's over 20 cards
[22:19] <xdmanx007> actually another king comes you aren't exactly pissed!
[22:20] <Qhr1s0> you're losing to KKxx, KTxx and K7xx then, all of which are very possible
[22:20] <xdmanx007> so you think you should just fold it eventhough right then you most have the best hand
[22:20] <xdmanx007> most likely
[22:21] <Qhr1s0> yep, get out while you don't have much invested rather than get too involved in a pot where you may well blindly call down if one of 20 scare cards hits
[22:21] <xdmanx007> you don't think reraising would be a BETTER play?
[22:23] <Qhr1s0> on a KT3 rainbow flop, reraise
[22:23] <Qhr1s0> depends how much gamboooooool you're willing to take i guess
[22:25] <xdmanx007> but your opponent would be the one "gambling" since he very likely is way behind atm
[22:25] <xdmanx007> just asking
[22:26] <Qhr1s0> i just don't like investing heavily in a pot where 50% of the time i'm going to have no clue where I am after the turn
[22:27] <Qhr1s0> in $25PL people will do obviously stupid shit enough to make you money in much easier ways
[22:30] <Qhr1s0> basically, that hand is a perfect example of why TT65 is crap that should be mucked preflop
[22:30] <xdmanx007> I see your point, just not sure if outright folding when there are 2 suits on the board is what I would do

 

[soadwes]

The above post helps a great deal... thx dorkus! I have another question though: Do you go for a pot when ur pretty sure you wont hit the hi but have the nut lo? In the case below, with no investment in the pot. What about if you are pot commited? I guess call or fold depending on what minimizes your loss?

edit: i know i could get drawn out of the nut lo...
edit2: i played the hand above because i was bb

***** Hand History for Game 3036641779 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, November 14, 20:35:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 65413 (real money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: kyttykat ( $11.21 )
Seat 3: berlee13 ( $53.03 )
Seat 4: pokerticker ( $40.41 )
Seat 5: markmark329 ( $17.60 )
Seat 10: ryejem ( $47.67 )
Seat 7: soadwes1 ( $33.39 )
Seat 9: jay727 ( $34.36 )
Seat 2: jamerobe ( $18.25 )
Seat 6: silverrush1 ( $0 )
berlee13 posts small blind [$0.10].
pokerticker posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to soadwes1 [3h] [5s] [Ac] [2h]
silverrush1 has left the table.
markmark329 folds.
soadwes1 raises [$0.85].
jay727 folds.
ryejem calls [$0.85].
kyttykat folds.
jamerobe folds.
berlee13 calls [$0.75].
pokerticker folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [10d] [8d] [6d]
berlee13 bets [$2.70].
LoserMike has joined the table.
soadwes1 folds.
ryejem folds.
berlee13 does not show cards.
berlee13 wins $5.40

 

[twizzybop]

Wow! folding with the nut lo.. split pot because you know your oppenent bet for the flush. That would be my guess anyway.. not to great playing hi/lo but it is fun to play.

 

[soadwes]

Wow! folding with the nut lo.. split pot because you know your oppenent bet for the flush. That would be my guess anyway.. not to great playing hi/lo but it is fun to play.

I was on draw for the nut lo... and he was prolly gonna make a max bet the whole way through the pot

 

[twizzybop]

Ok and 1 call for the turn wouldn't have been a bad call at all. Now depending on what happens at the turn would be definate decision on weither or not to fold. I know I would take 1 card at least..Then again you'd only be splitting .85 cents.. .85 cents for a $2.70 call. ok definate fold then.

 

[xdmanx007]

Pretty interesting discussion - I can see where xdman is coming from here, but I still disagree.

[22:16] <xdmanx007> Well Chris could temm me why that one hand is marginal in omaha postflop
[22:17] <Qhr1s0> [22:16] <xdmanx007> Well Chris could temm me why that one hand is marginal in omaha postflop
[22:17] <Qhr1s0> hm
[22:17] <Qhr1s0> that one soadwes posted?
[22:17] <xdmanx007> yeh set of 10's
[22:17] <xdmanx007> is marginal?
[22:19] <Qhr1s0> you're gonna hate it if any club, A, K, Q, J, maybe 9 hits
[22:19] <Qhr1s0> that's over 20 cards
[22:19] <xdmanx007> actually another king comes you aren't exactly pissed!
[22:20] <Qhr1s0> you're losing to KKxx, KTxx and K7xx then, all of which are very possible
[22:20] <xdmanx007> so you think you should just fold it eventhough right then you most have the best hand
[22:20] <xdmanx007> most likely
[22:21] <Qhr1s0> yep, get out while you don't have much invested rather than get too involved in a pot where you may well blindly call down if one of 20 scare cards hits
[22:21] <xdmanx007> you don't think reraising would be a BETTER play?
[22:23] <Qhr1s0> on a KT3 rainbow flop, reraise
[22:23] <Qhr1s0> depends how much gamboooooool you're willing to take i guess
[22:25] <xdmanx007> but your opponent would be the one "gambling" since he very likely is way behind atm
[22:25] <xdmanx007> just asking
[22:26] <Qhr1s0> i just don't like investing heavily in a pot where 50% of the time i'm going to have no clue where I am after the turn
[22:27] <Qhr1s0> in $25PL people will do obviously stupid shit enough to make you money in much easier ways
[22:30] <Qhr1s0> basically, that hand is a perfect example of why TT65 is crap that should be mucked preflop
[22:30] <xdmanx007> I see your point, just not sure if outright folding when there are 2 suits on the board is what I would do

Yes I would have reraised him the max. When he bets you then have a relatively large pot size that is worth contesting and you most likely have him hammered. IF in fact he is on a draw which I doubt with his aggression you killing his drawing odds and making him pay to catch up. Max bet would be my play. Calling is the worst of the 3 with folding being my second choice.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I was on draw for the nut lo... and he was prolly gonna make a max bet the whole way through the pot

Exactly why you shouldn't play that past the flop - you're on a draw for half the pot, as you have no realistic chance of winning the high end. So you're either going to spilt or get scooped.

 

[soadwes]

Exactly why you shouldn't play that past the flop - you're on a draw for half the pot, as you have no realistic chance of winning the high end. So you're either going to spilt or get scooped.

Are you saying i shouldnt play A235?

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Of course you should play it preflop, it's a good starting hand. But you're looking to actually make a low on the flop, or make a nut low draw with possibilities for high (wheel/flush draw most commonly) or a high made hand.

 

[soadwes]

Ok... misunderstood you. I totally agree!