$25 NL HE Full Ring: Triple-barrel with bottom pair

[kdmeteor]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.10/$.25

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

Currency

$

Hiyo. I'm primarily a live player, but I want to add some online play, both to improve and maybe add some lower variance revenue. This was on GGPoker, which has this weird format where you are 200BB deep but there's a rather huge Ante. Aside from the specific hand, I'm also interested in what you think the most profitable site for these stakes is. GGPoker seems better than pokerstars, which no longer has rakeback for German players, although maybe there's an even better option? If GGPoker, is the 9handed or 6handed (with no ante) field better? (Has this been discussed elsewhere on the forum?)

Anyway, this hand--

Preflop: 75o might be a fold normally, but given the Ante here I think it's an easy call. I don't have any charts for this though.

Flop: I thought this board is pretty good for my range, so I should have a sizeable number of bluffs. A bottom-pair with backdoor equity seemed like a reasonable candidate, although looking at it now, it's possible you have enough good bluffs and don't need to look so hard to find more. Maybe this was just a fold? Although I think check-raising more than GTO may be a reasonable exploit(?). (Since it's GGPoker, I didn't have stats on the particular opponent.)

Turn: I decided to keep barelling since I picked up some equity.

River: with the Flush coming in and my hand being very weak, I thought a shove was appropriate; I think lots of strong hands in my range would play the same, and something like AT might plausibly fold (and maybe did). But a risky line overall.

GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 ($0.10 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

91558d1 (UTG): $78.18 (313 bb)
a73e1ab3 (UTG+1): $69.30 (277 bb)
66138006 (MP): $48.93 (196 bb)
da229bd1 (MP+1): $55.04 (220 bb)
c12b6af4 (LP): $109.36 (437 bb)
822f796f (CO): $84.83 (339 bb)
a578a4ea (BU): $37.49 (150 bb)
762b0b2f (SB): $55.35 (221 bb)
Hero (BB): $46.69 (187 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($1.25) Hero (Hero) is BB with 7♥ 5♠
3 players fold, da229bd1 (MP+1) raises to $0.88, 4 players fold, Hero (BB) calls $0.63

Flop: ($2.76) 5♦ 8♣ T♣ (2 players)
Hero (BB) checks, da229bd1 (MP+1) bets $1.83, Hero (BB) raises to $6.65, da229bd1 (MP+1) calls $4.82

Turn: ($16.06) 4♥ (2 players)
Hero (BB) bets $8.03, da229bd1 (MP+1) calls $8.03

River: ($32.12) Q♣ (2 players)
Hero (BB) bets $31.03 (all-in), da229bd1 (MP+1) folds

Total pot: $32.12 (Rake: $2.11)
Hero (BB) wins $30.01

 

[fundiver199]

First a few words about the format. A big ante like this (3-4BB per hand) definitely change preflop a lot, so you should throw charts and solves for non-ante cash games right out the window. In a format like this you need to play far more hands from all positions, and a larger open size is also warrented to not give people the sickest of odds to enter. So you should view more like a 50NL game playing 100BB deep rather than a 25NL game playing 200BB deep.

As for which site is more profitable, I have no idea, since I am mainly a tournament player. Which mean I am used to playing with antes but not this large. The rake does seem extremely high though, if your hand history is correct. That is definitely an issue and will make it difficult for anyone to be long term winners, unless there is massive rakeback or other benefits. With this out of the way lets look at the hand.

Preflop
Getting odds this good and closing action, you can defend any two cards or anything but junk.

Flop
He does bet fairly large, but even so I feel, bottom pair is a fairly standard defend. I would however defend by calling and not check-raising. You have a ton of draws, that lack showdown value, and that are far more obvious check-raises on this board. J9, 97, 76, clubs. The list goes on. When you also check-raise bottom pair, you will end up check-raising 10-20 times as many bluffs as value combos, since check-raises for value are only sets and two pair, and maybe you dont even have all the two pair combos.

Turn
As played I would also barrel again.

River
You got a good runout to bluff, since clubs, J9 and 76 all got there. But the issue with your hand is, you only block 76. So its not the greatest bluffing candidate, and even though it ended up working, I would go back to the flop and take a less aggressive line there.

 

[kdmeteor]

Thanks, all good points. I think I agree that check-raise was overly aggressive and tilts my range too much; would check-call the situation next time.

@Rake: I obviously didn't pay attention in the hand itself. PokerTracker says "Total pot $32.12 | Rake $1.91 | Jackpot $0.2". Now 1.91 would be 6% which is what GGPoker claims to take. I don't know what exactly Jackpot means; there's a whole bunch of random promotional programs (GGPoker is basically one giant dumb spectacle) and idk which one(s) count as "jackpot". I previously thought that they were paid from the rake though; the fact that they're charged extra kinda sucks.

Rakeback is decent, about 30% I think and a bit better if I play more. I think that still makes it better than PokerStars, which has 5% rake (plus no rake from preflop hands) but no rakeback.

 

[Station_Master]

I agree with fundiver so not too much to add on the hand. Main point is on a draw heavy board you dont need to turn bottom pair into a bluff.

In terms of cash games I would suggest a non ante game. The problem with an ante game is you need to widen your range and on a high rake site like GG it will just become a rake trap. I would suggest trying non ante games. Pokerstars is a decent option as rake is lower, but you would need to table select as NL25 and above are quite reg heavy (they are not all good regs tho)

 

[kdmeteor]

Given the rakeback and random cash drops and the ggcheers thing, I'm pretty sure GGPoker is effectively lower rake than PokerStars. Maybe if PokerStars also had a rakeback, but it's just been completely scrapped for German players.

The point on no ante vs. annte games is well taken though, maybe I should switch. I only play the ante games because I prefer 9-handed

 

[Aballinamion]

Hiyo. I'm primarily a live player, but I want to add some online play, both to improve and maybe add some lower variance revenue. This was on GGPoker, which has this weird format where you are 200BB deep but there's a rather huge Ante. Aside from the specific hand, I'm also interested in what you think the most profitable site for these stakes is. GGPoker seems better than PokerStars, which no longer has rakeback for German players, although maybe there's an even better option? If GGPoker, is the 9handed or 6handed (with no ante) field better? (Has this been discussed elsewhere on the forum?)

Anyway, this hand--

Preflop: 75o might be a fold normally, but given the Ante here I think it's an easy call. I don't have any charts for this though.

Flop: I thought this board is pretty good for my range, so I should have a sizeable number of bluffs. A bottom-pair with backdoor equity seemed like a reasonable candidate, although looking at it now, it's possible you have enough good bluffs and don't need to look so hard to find more. Maybe this was just a fold? Although I think check-raising more than GTO may be a reasonable exploit(?). (Since it's GGPoker, I didn't have stats on the particular opponent.)

Turn: I decided to keep barelling since I picked up some equity.

River: with the Flush coming in and my hand being very weak, I thought a shove was appropriate; I think lots of strong hands in my range would play the same, and something like AT might plausibly fold (and maybe did). But a risky line overall.

GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 ($0.10 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

91558d1 (UTG): $78.18 (313 bb)
a73e1ab3 (UTG+1): $69.30 (277 bb)
66138006 (MP): $48.93 (196 bb)
da229bd1 (MP+1): $55.04 (220 bb)
c12b6af4 (LP): $109.36 (437 bb)
822f796f (CO): $84.83 (339 bb)
a578a4ea (BU): $37.49 (150 bb)
762b0b2f (SB): $55.35 (221 bb)
Hero (BB): $46.69 (187 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($1.25) Hero (Hero) is BB with 7♥ 5♠
3 players fold, da229bd1 (MP+1) raises to $0.88, 4 players fold, Hero (BB) calls $0.63

Flop: ($2.76) 5♦ 8♣ T♣ (2 players)
Hero (BB) checks, da229bd1 (MP+1) bets $1.83, Hero (BB) raises to $6.65, da229bd1 (MP+1) calls $4.82

Turn: ($16.06) 4♥ (2 players)
Hero (BB) bets $8.03, da229bd1 (MP+1) calls $8.03

River: ($32.12) Q♣ (2 players)
Hero (BB) bets $31.03 (all-in), da229bd1 (MP+1) folds

Total pot: $32.12 (Rake: $2.11)
Hero (BB) wins $30.01

In this situation we are defending too much the blinds. We can fold combos like 75o and similar combos because we don't know if we have enough equity to play it postflop.
Or at least choose suited connectors to defend your blinds given reasonable odds.
As played we are overplaying our range a bit, this is not the best spot to bet, raise or even triple barrel bluff. We have small showdown value and less equity with poor draws.
Overall the best line is to fold these combos preflop to avoid more complications ahead.