$200 NL HE Full Ring: Was this a bad Shove?

[StraddleDaddy]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$1/$2

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

Currency

$

I’m playing @ a large Casino in 1/3 NOT 1/2 like description may say, NL (8 max). From what I’ve read and experienced, the play is pretty aggressively and large in comparison to other casinos ($500-$100 buy in).
I’ve been at this table for 2 hours.

Anyway situation is as follows: I am UTG with A s K d, and make it 6. UTG + 1 Calls, HighJack makes it 20, Dealer Calls, Folds to me and I make it 100. Everyone folds but HighJack quickly calls. Going to a flop, pot is about 230 and I now have 210 Behind, HighJack has me covered.
(For context my pre flop image is pretty tight as this is the 3rd hand I’ve 3 bet in 2 hours, 1 of which got to showdown and I had JJ… Although I’m not sure if this player took any consideration)

Flop comes Q s J s and 7 h

Within 6 seconds I announce all in

This player snap calls me all in and flips over A h J c. Did I inadvertently make my line look extremely bluffy?

Any tips/advice/opinions greatly appreciated.

 

[Station_Master]

If you arrive at the flop with an SPR of less than 1 then your 4bet was too big (or small, I.e. better to 4bet shove). Here if you had a stack of 310, I wouldn't 4bet to more than 80 and probably smaller would do, perhaps 60 or 70.

As played, I dont think shoving is terrible as you will have often have at least 7 outs so nearly the 30% equity or so you need to check call. I might prefer a check or small bet but at this SPR there is little room to maneouver

 

[Station_Master]

Just to add you also have bdfd, so not terrible to shove or check call a shove. I still might check or bet small though as would you really shove AA or KK, plus it's not a great board for the 4bettor

 

[liuouhgkres]

Your 4bet could be smaller, but it's fine I think. On the flop you can split your range into tiny bet and shove. I think AK can get into both ranges as a bluff, therefore your play is fine.

 

[loafaBREAD]

Shove on the flop OOP... I guess this is OK if you also do it with KK and AQ (if you have that as a bluff). I think I like a smaller bet here as you want to put v in a tough spot- vs a shove he has an easy decision.

Looks like you are about 300$ effective. Like others said, your 4bet can be smaller- 2.3x plus the money of the cold caller. This would make a smaller bet otf more fitting.

I know utg in a 6max game hero can 4 bet shove with AKo pre... I'm not sure that's always appropriate utg when 8 handed, but with the dead$ out there it can't be too bad if v is an aggressive player.

 

[300HPGOD]

I'll start with what others have said that the 4 bet should be smaller. In live play I feel that our raises and re raises can and should be smaller than when playing online due to people heroing you less live than online. Its the factor that if theyre wrong that everyone sees their face and they are not anonymous like they are online. Thats my opinion anyway so if we 4 bet I would be making it 60 or 65.

The flop is really bad for our hand imo. Yes we have the gutter with a 10 and a backdoor but unless we think HJ is really loose, their calling range here is either hands like JJ+ or its AK, AQ, or AJ. Pretty much all else live, unless you have seen something to show otherwise being at the table with this player, will fold to a 4 bet the size that you make it. Especially if you have not been 3 or 4 betting often as you say in your post you havent been. This flop hits all the hands that were behind you pre (like this AJ for instance) and all the hands that were in front of you are still ahead of you. For your jam to work here you would need villain to think you have a set or that they fold their sliver range of AJ (which we know thats what they actually had but its not a huge part of their range). Otherwise, they are calling here. If we had a set would we always jam here on the flop even with a SPR of less than one and two spades? I dont know, online I damn sure would be but live, people are more scared as I said and I think it folds out some stuff we wouldnt want to fold like AJ if we were to actually have a set here. I think betting smaller on this flop to make it look like you have the nuts and dont want a fold might get the fold you are looking for more often vs jamming. Its counter intuitive but also depends on the villain.

As far as villain is concerned, I dont think this is a snap call as they do and live it surprises me a bit but if AJ isnt folding here than not much is so I wouldnt jam for other reasons but against this opponent it will never work as a bluff. This flop texture just would have scared me a lot and the 4 bet should have been smaller too. As what was said above, if our 4 bet is this much of our stack we are better just getting it in pre. As played after I see the flop, I would just hate it and be looking for a way to get out if I could which is tough when our stack is already half in.

 

[gustav197poker]

You opened minimum at an aggressive table. That's not exactly a tight image. Here you could open to 15-18 which if you decide to 4-bet from UTG probably means playing for stacks and there your image can influence, to see who is willing to fight with you for the pot.
The flop is connected and your move is correct, you don't need to play slow in these sequences.

 

[amitmanchanda]

I’m playing @ a large Casino in 1/3 NOT 1/2 like description may say, NL (8 max). From what I’ve read and experienced, the play is pretty aggressively and large in comparison to other casinos ($500-$100 buy in).
I’ve been at this table for 2 hours.

Anyway situation is as follows: I am UTG with A s K d, and make it 6. UTG + 1 Calls, HighJack makes it 20, Dealer Calls, Folds to me and I make it 100. Everyone folds but HighJack quickly calls. Going to a flop, pot is about 230 and I now have 210 Behind, HighJack has me covered.
(For context my pre flop image is pretty tight as this is the 3rd hand I’ve 3 bet in 2 hours, 1 of which got to showdown and I had JJ… Although I’m not sure if this player took any consideration)

Flop comes Q s J s and 7 h

Within 6 seconds I announce all in

This player snap calls me all in and flips over A h J c. Did I inadvertently make my line look extremely bluffy?

Any tips/advice/opinions greatly appreciated.

It’s a mistake I have made so many times, overplaying AK. I think 3 bet should have been around 50-60 which would have still take out any other player. And it was a check post flop, if the bet from other player any thing less than 50% of pot size was a call and fold if more than that. AQ, AJ any pocket pair beats you on flop which the opponent would have played the way he played.

 

[MrBronze]

Squoity is a nice hobbit, evaluating every gold coin he sees and shiny he can hoard back to his cave from the perspective which is: Is my shiny mine or somebody else has my shiny. Still good pre, so yes pre you were ahead. On the flop not really. Why did you try to take his shiny and not save your shiny. When you knew he is a stronger hobbit?!

 

[blueskies]

Playing AK oop is not easy. You basically committed 1/3 of your stack with ace high oop against what you describe as aggro players. That leaves you with one pot size bet. That's a tough spot. If it's me, if I am gonna be aggro with AK oop, I am gonna 4bet shove pre. You are only about 100 BB deep. That flop connects well with your opponent's range. If he called that 4 bet from you preflop and he catches a piece of the board, he's not gonna fold to a pot-size bet.

 

[Aballinamion]

I’m playing @ a large Casino in 1/3 NOT 1/2 like description may say, NL (8 max). From what I’ve read and experienced, the play is pretty aggressively and large in comparison to other casinos ($500-$100 buy in).
I’ve been at this table for 2 hours.

Anyway situation is as follows: I am UTG with A s K d, and make it 6. UTG + 1 Calls, HighJack makes it 20, Dealer Calls, Folds to me and I make it 100. Everyone folds but HighJack quickly calls. Going to a flop, pot is about 230 and I now have 210 Behind, HighJack has me covered.
(For context my pre flop image is pretty tight as this is the 3rd hand I’ve 3 bet in 2 hours, 1 of which got to showdown and I had JJ… Although I’m not sure if this player took any consideration)

Flop comes Q s J s and 7 h

Within 6 seconds I announce all in

This player snap calls me all in and flips over A h J c. Did I inadvertently make my line look extremely bluffy?

Any tips/advice/opinions greatly appreciated.

When you get OTF we must go giving SPR situation. If villain has us, we still have some equity for turn and river.

 

[ScoobyNL]

i think i would 4bet shove, but you decided to call, no problem with that also.

You moved all in 6 sec after this flop, this is also a line i sometimes take and should work.

The player who reraiuse with AJ is a donk because AJ is a teriible hand for 3 bet.

OIn this flop how often is AJ good there ?

But you do not have AA or KK because no 4 bet and also no QQ because then you will not shove the flop.

I think the guy with AJ puts you on AK or maybe a flushdraw !!!