$20 NL HE 6-max: Is there any way of getting away from full house vs quads?

[pokernomad]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.10/$.20

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

VP$IP

45

PFR

36

Currency

$

I have been caught out in a couple of spots recently where I have had full houses vs quads (or in this case a better full house on the flop). Is there any way of getting away from these situations? It's just so unlikely that they have a better hand - but perhaps I over played and I end up being lucky in only losing ~42BBs?

Pacific Poker - $0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 101.35 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 65.65 BB
CO: 100 BB
Hero (BTN): 93 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3:heart: 3:spade:

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) 6:heart: 6:diamond: A:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets 3.75 BB, CO calls 3.75 BB

Turn: (15 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
CO checks, Hero checks

River: (15 BB, 2 players) 6:club:
CO bets 35 BB, Hero calls 35 BB

CO shows A:spade: 6:spade: (Four of a Kind, Sixes)
(Pre 48%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks 3:heart: 3:spade: (Full House, Sixes full of Threes)
(Pre 52%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 0%)
CO wins 80.75 BB

 

[johnwat2]

I think it would be very hard for me to fold a full house. Not sure I ever have. Quads, I have never seen Quads over Quads. I have seen four Aces lose to a straight flush though.
Be Well

 

[okeedokalee]

Why would you call an all-in with a pair of 3s Full Boat. In reality you are calling a shove with a pair of 3s, losing to all but a pair of 2s.
What sort of range did you expect the Villain to have when he shoved the river.

 

[zipocool]

on such a board your full house is just a bluffcatcher (quite weak at that), on the river it is already a simple fold, on the flop I would also check as opponent has Ax in his range and sometimes he will have pocket pairs higher than ours, so no it makes sense to overclock the bank+he will sometimes have quads of sixes

 

[kunkgreen]

Too complicated to escape!

But in your case the 6 on the river was a bad card, since from then on you would already be losing to a probable Ace, in addition to all the overpairs. Although avoidable, he put you in a tough decision on the river.

Sometimes it's really hard to let go of the bone, it's to chip... fight for the set, get the full and still lose.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Setmining seems fine here.

Flop
He checked to you, but just because he checked, does not mean, he missed. This time he flopped a boat and slowplayed it, and thats obviously rather extreme. But he is also supposed to check quite a bit with AX, because its such a way ahead way behind situation, or with high pocket pairs like KK or QQ. So this check is not as weak, as you might think, and you should not fall into the trap of betting your entire range, just because he checked to you. Yes its cool, if you can get a hand like JT of spades to fold and deny its equity. But he is likely not folding, as much as you want, and when he continue, you are likely behind with only 2 outs to improve.

Turn
As played you could consider turning your hand into a multistreet bluff. But this is not a good bluffing card, and you have much better candidates for bluffing, like for instance your flushdraws. So as played I agree with checking back now. Basically hoping to finally spike the set on the river, and if not my plan would be to fold, if he bet any substantial amount.

River
The headline of this post suggest, that you are thinking about poker in absolute hand strenght, and this is something, you need to change. Yes you have a full house, but on this board thats not much of a hand at all. You lose to any hand with a 6 or an A, or even just any better pocket pair like 44 or higher. You are also facing an overbet for more than 2X the size of the pot, and this hand should be very near the bottom of your range. So frankly this should have been an easy fold.

 

[John A]

At these stakes, if you fold in a pot this size 100% of the time for double the river size w/ a bluff catcher, you'll be +EV.

 

[CitizenOfSky]

Easy fold

 

[CitizenOfSky]

33- fold preflop BU vs CO

 

[eetenor]

I have been caught out in a couple of spots recently where I have had full houses vs quads (or in this case a better full house on the flop). Is there any way of getting away from these situations? It's just so unlikely that they have a better hand - but perhaps I over played and I end up being lucky in only losing ~42BBs?

Pacific Poker - $0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 101.35 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 65.65 BB
CO: 100 BB
Hero (BTN): 93 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3:heart: 3:spade:

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) 6:heart: 6:diamond: A:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets 3.75 BB, CO calls 3.75 BB

Turn: (15 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
CO checks, Hero checks

River: (15 BB, 2 players) 6:club:
CO bets 35 BB, Hero calls 35 BB

CO shows A:spade: 6:spade: (Four of a Kind, Sixes)
(Pre 48%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks 3:heart: 3:spade: (Full House, Sixes full of Threes)
(Pre 52%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 0%)
CO wins 80.75

Yes we can get away from this full house easily-why? what value hand are we beating? Villains never have 100% bluffs so what value hand are we beating? Why do we think the V never has an A here? If the V thinks we would bet the Ax hands again on turn and they have KK why not go for max value?
What is the V bluffing? What are they trying to get us to fold that is better and is risking 2x pot to get that fold? K high? Q high that called the flop why? If they bluff us here so be it MDF says we fold this hand we have soo many better full houses to call with

 

[Kinalha]

I have been caught out in a couple of spots recently where I have had full houses vs quads (or in this case a better full house on the flop). Is there any way of getting away from these situations? It's just so unlikely that they have a better hand - but perhaps I over played and I end up being lucky in only losing ~42BBs?

Pacific Poker - $0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 101.35 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 65.65 BB
CO: 100 BB
Hero (BTN): 93 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3:heart: 3:spade:

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) 6:heart: 6:diamond: A:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets 3.75 BB, CO calls 3.75 BB

Turn: (15 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
CO checks, Hero checks

River: (15 BB, 2 players) 6:club:
CO bets 35 BB, Hero calls 35 BB

CO shows A:spade: 6:spade: (Four of a Kind, Sixes)
(Pre 48%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks 3:heart: 3:spade: (Full House, Sixes full of Threes)
(Pre 52%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 0%)
CO wins 80.75 BB

sorry dude, but you really thinks is impossible escape here?

 

[LemonadeJooe]

If u call an open- raise u need to have equity edge over your opp. range, which u didnt.
U were at the bottom.
+2 ppls left to act.
ez fold.
flop is bad to try to set mine
ez call/fold
+ river bet was ez fold.

 

[EvertonGirl]

The only thing I agree with here is the flat call pre and the check back on the turn.

This should have been a small loss, easy fold on the river!

 

[Station_Master]

Easy fold on the river especially to a 2x pot over. He has an A or a 6 or both with this line. So unlikely he is doing it with worse, especially as you could just have an A or a 6. Occasionally a maniac will bluff off in this spot but not very often to call down