$2 NL HE 6-max: Opponents thinking I'm bluffing to steal blinds

[lacroir]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.01/$.02

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

It's not really a detailed hand analysis, but I really loved how it played out. Though, sure, any feedback is highly appreciated if you think I played the hand wrong or you would have played differently. 🙂

I was playing at a cash table with 'standard' players - no especially aggressive or very tight players, let's say average plays.

We were running maybe 2-3 hands now where no one entered the pot and someone just took the blinds.

• Now, the first hand:

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players

Replay this hand on CardsChat

Sortemys (UTG): $2.00 (100 bb)
flandrdog (CO): $2.49 (125 bb)
Lacroir (BU): $2.05 (103 bb)
tjdakrnl (SB): $1.22 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (BB): $0.27 (14 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is BTN with T♠ 9♠

2 players fold, Lacroir (BU) raises to $0.05, 2 players fold

Total pot: $0.05 (Rake: $0)
Lacroir (BU) wins $0.05

T9s, just standard raise, I won the blinds.

• Next one:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

flandrdog (UTG): $2.49 (125 bb)
Lacroir (CO): $2.08 (104 bb)
tjdakrnl (BU): $1.21 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (SB): $0.25 (13 bb)
Sortemys (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is CO with J♠ J♣
1 fold, Lacroir (CO) raises to $0.05, 3 players fold

Total pot: $0.05 (Rake: $0)
Lacroir (CO) wins $0.05

Nice pocket Jacks, standard raise, won blinds again, nothing special.

• And then, the important hand comes:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Lacroir (UTG): $2.11 (106 bb)
tjdakrnl (CO): $1.21 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (BU): $0.24 (12 bb)
Sortemys (SB): $1.98 (99 bb)
flandrdog (BB): $2.49 (125 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is UTG with T♠ T♦
Lacroir (UTG) raises to $0.05, tjdakrnl (CO) 3-bets to $0.16, 2 players fold, flandrdog (BB) 4-bets to $0.60, Lacroir (UTG) calls $0.55, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.37) 6♥ T♥ 5♣ (2 players)
flandrdog (BB) bets $1.50, Lacroir (UTG) raises to $1.51 (all-in), flandrdog (BB) calls $0.01

Turn: ($4.39) 2♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.39) 4♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.39 (Rake: $0.15)

Showdown:
Lacroir (UTG) shows T♠ T♦ (three of a kind, Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 57%, Flop: 95%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

flandrdog (BB) shows K♥ A♠ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 43%, Flop: 5%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

Lacroir (UTG) wins $4.24

I think, due to being an aggressor in the previous two hands, they were thinking 'Enough! This guy just steals everything!' so just tried to 3-bet me and have a very aggressive 4-bet. But I really had something 😆.

 

[Station_Master]

It is possible they 3 and 4bet you lighter, but probably it's just because they had decent hands this time. E.g. 4betting AKo doesnt seem overly wide. I would be tempted to fold pre as there is always the possibility of the 3bettor coming over the top and 4bet ranges at 2NL tend to be quite tight. Fortunately you hit a set, otherwise post flop would be tricky.

 

[fundiver199]

Usually 3 hands is not enough to create a dynamic, where someone is perceived as being completely out of line. And as Station_Master say, AK is a pretty common 4-betting hand. In this case the 3-bettor only started with 61BB, so it was pretty reasonable for the guy with AK to be willing to stack off against him preflop.

Instead you called the 4-bet, which created an SPR of just over 1. He missed the flop, but even so its not crazy to jam AK in that situation hoping, there might be just a bit of fold equity, or that he have 6 outs to hit top pair, so that he is only making a marginally losing jam. Unfortunately for him you had top set, which is pretty much the only hand, he was almost dead again. So basically just a very good flop for you and a bad flop for him

 

[Aballinamion]

It's not really a detailed hand analysis, but I really loved how it played out. Though, sure, any feedback is highly appreciated if you think I played the hand wrong or you would have played differently. 🙂

I was playing at a cash table with 'standard' players - no especially aggressive or very tight players, let's say average plays.

We were running maybe 2-3 hands now where no one entered the pot and someone just took the blinds.

• Now, the first hand:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players

Replay this hand on CardsChat

Sortemys (UTG): $2.00 (100 bb)
flandrdog (CO): $2.49 (125 bb)
Lacroir (BU): $2.05 (103 bb)
tjdakrnl (SB): $1.22 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (BB): $0.27 (14 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is BTN with T♠ 9♠

2 players fold, Lacroir (BU) raises to $0.05, 2 players fold

Total pot: $0.05 (Rake: $0)
Lacroir (BU) wins $0.05

T9s, just standard raise, I won the blinds.

• Next one:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

flandrdog (UTG): $2.49 (125 bb)
Lacroir (CO): $2.08 (104 bb)
tjdakrnl (BU): $1.21 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (SB): $0.25 (13 bb)
Sortemys (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is CO with J♠ J♣
1 fold, Lacroir (CO) raises to $0.05, 3 players fold

Total pot: $0.05 (Rake: $0)
Lacroir (CO) wins $0.05

Nice pocket Jacks, standard raise, won blinds again, nothing special.

• And then, the important hand comes:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Lacroir (UTG): $2.11 (106 bb)
tjdakrnl (CO): $1.21 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (BU): $0.24 (12 bb)
Sortemys (SB): $1.98 (99 bb)
flandrdog (BB): $2.49 (125 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is UTG with T♠ T♦
Lacroir (UTG) raises to $0.05, tjdakrnl (CO) 3-bets to $0.16, 2 players fold, flandrdog (BB) 4-bets to $0.60, Lacroir (UTG) calls $0.55, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.37) 6♥ T♥ 5♣ (2 players)
flandrdog (BB) bets $1.50, Lacroir (UTG) raises to $1.51 (all-in), flandrdog (BB) calls $0.01

Turn: ($4.39) 2♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.39) 4♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.39 (Rake: $0.15)

Showdown:
Lacroir (UTG) shows T♠ T♦ (three of a kind, Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 57%, Flop: 95%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

flandrdog (BB) shows K♥ A♠ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 43%, Flop: 5%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

Lacroir (UTG) wins $4.24

I think, due to being an aggressor in the previous two hands, they were thinking 'Enough! This guy just steals everything!' so just tried to 3-bet me and have a very aggressive 4-bet. But I really had something 😆.

About stealing preflop: we can use a much wider range to steal the blinds, specially when it comes in fold to the SB. Personally I raise even 100% range depending on the situation: many players don’t know how to defend the BB, and much more call raises just to see a flop. So we have lots of advantages. Raising T9s from the SB is almost raising the nuts.

Now the hand where we are dealt TT in UTG:

If CO 3-bets and BB squeezed, we could’ve called. But what happened here is absurd: BB 4-bets nearly to 4x, putting 30 blinds into the pot and we still have CO to speak.
Our action here would run thus: either we fold preflop or we push all-in. Calling a big polarized 4-bet OOP having another player yet to speak doesn’t seem optimal in the long run.
We could’ve called a 4-bet having information about villain’s profile and if the 4-bet sizing was something like 2.5x at maximum.
We are not getting results oriented. The weakest hand villain would show in a spot like this is AKo on which we are poorly flipping, which is a losing move in the long run for cash games, because of the rake. In tournaments it’s okay to be flipping when we are close enough to 50/50 equity.
It doesn’t matter what happened postflop. We are only getting sets 1/8 on the flop best case scenario, so if we do the math, we are missing most of flops and losing to hands as JJ, QQ, KK and AA.
And when we get lucky, we are simply flipping with AK.
As fundiver has said, 3, 10, 30 hands aren’t a decent sample of hands to assume anything about our opponents. Sometimes we are lucky and get premium hands in a row, it happens and it doesn’t prove that anyone is a maniac for so doing.
We should’ve folded preflop.

 

[lacroir]

About stealing preflop: we can use a much wider range to steal the blinds, specially when it comes in fold to the SB. Personally I raise even 100% range depending on the situation: many players don’t know how to defend the BB, and much more call raises just to see a flop. So we have lots of advantages. Raising T9s from the SB is almost raising the nuts.

Now the hand where we are dealt TT in UTG:

If CO 3-bets and BB squeezed, we could’ve called. But what happened here is absurd: BB 4-bets nearly to 4x, putting 30 blinds into the pot and we still have CO to speak.
Our action here would run thus: either we fold preflop or we push all-in. Calling a big polarized 4-bet OOP having another player yet to speak doesn’t seem optimal in the long run.
We could’ve called a 4-bet having information about villain’s profile and if the 4-bet sizing was something like 2.5x at maximum.
We are not getting results oriented. The weakest hand villain would show in a spot like this is AKo on which we are poorly flipping, which is a losing move in the long run for cash games, because of the rake. In tournaments it’s okay to be flipping when we are close enough to 50/50 equity.
It doesn’t matter what happened postflop. We are only getting sets 1/8 on the flop best case scenario, so if we do the math, we are missing most of flops and losing to hands as JJ, QQ, KK and AA.
And when we get lucky, we are simply flipping with AK.
As fundiver has said, 3, 10, 30 hands aren’t a decent sample of hands to assume anything about our opponents. Sometimes we are lucky and get premium hands in a row, it happens and it doesn’t prove that anyone is a maniac for so doing.
We should’ve folded preflop.

Thank you! Your (and others as well) explanations help a lot to see it clearer. Now I see it was a big chunk of luck and really either shove or fold preflop. Thinking about flipping is not optimal in cash is something I haven't realised yet, though it's logical - definitely I'm playing more tournaments than cash games...
Also it's getting more and more obvious that sooner or later I have to invest in a HUD for sure...

 

[Aballinamion]

Thank you! Your (and others as well) explanations help a lot to see it clearer. Now I see it was a big chunk of luck and really either shove or fold preflop. Thinking about flipping is not optimal in cash is something I haven't realised yet, though it's logical - definitely I'm playing more tournaments than cash games...
Also it's getting more and more obvious that sooner or later I have to invest in a HUD for sure...

HUD is a good option, but for micro stakes I would recommend taking notes of players and their behavior/showdowns: when we see a playing getting to the river in a 200 blinds pot having a baby or medium flush, when we see players staking missed AK/AQ postflop out of equity, when we see players paying tons of blinds with dominated aces, we must take notes and try to exploit this deficiency on their gameplay.
Take a very close and serious look about stack sizing and opening raises, that will give you lots of valuable information. There is a great difference of one who raises 2.5x preflop and other that raises 3.5x or 4x.
Why limping isn’t good? Because it gives to us this precious piece of information that one is limping with hands that it doesn’t find good and raising only those it finds good!

 

[eetenor]

It's not really a detailed hand analysis, but I really loved how it played out. Though, sure, any feedback is highly appreciated if you think I played the hand wrong or you would have played differently. 🙂

I was playing at a cash table with 'standard' players - no especially aggressive or very tight players, let's say average plays.

We were running maybe 2-3 hands now where no one entered the pot and someone just took the blinds.

• Now, the first hand:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players

Replay this hand on CardsChat

Sortemys (UTG): $2.00 (100 bb)
flandrdog (CO): $2.49 (125 bb)
Lacroir (BU): $2.05 (103 bb)
tjdakrnl (SB): $1.22 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (BB): $0.27 (14 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is BTN with T♠ 9♠

2 players fold, Lacroir (BU) raises to $0.05, 2 players fold

Total pot: $0.05 (Rake: $0)
Lacroir (BU) wins $0.05

T9s, just standard raise, I won the blinds.

• Next one:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

flandrdog (UTG): $2.49 (125 bb)
Lacroir (CO): $2.08 (104 bb)
tjdakrnl (BU): $1.21 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (SB): $0.25 (13 bb)
Sortemys (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is CO with J♠ J♣
1 fold, Lacroir (CO) raises to $0.05, 3 players fold

Total pot: $0.05 (Rake: $0)
Lacroir (CO) wins $0.05

Nice pocket Jacks, standard raise, won blinds again, nothing special.

• And then, the important hand comes:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Lacroir (UTG): $2.11 (106 bb)
tjdakrnl (CO): $1.21 (61 bb)
darsileza72 (BU): $0.24 (12 bb)
Sortemys (SB): $1.98 (99 bb)
flandrdog (BB): $2.49 (125 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is UTG with T♠ T♦
Lacroir (UTG) raises to $0.05, tjdakrnl (CO) 3-bets to $0.16, 2 players fold, flandrdog (BB) 4-bets to $0.60, Lacroir (UTG) calls $0.55, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.37) 6♥ T♥ 5♣ (2 players)
flandrdog (BB) bets $1.50, Lacroir (UTG) raises to $1.51 (all-in), flandrdog (BB) calls $0.01

Turn: ($4.39) 2♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.39) 4♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.39 (Rake: $0.15)

Showdown:
Lacroir (UTG) shows T♠ T♦ (three of a kind, Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 57%, Flop: 95%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

flandrdog (BB) shows K♥ A♠ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 43%, Flop: 5%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

Lacroir (UTG) wins $4.24

I think, due to being an aggressor in the previous two hands, they were thinking 'Enough! This guy just steals everything!' so just tried to 3-bet me and have a very aggressive 4-bet. But I really had something 😆.

I do not agree with your conclusion here--AK is not a "this dude has nothing I will get him to fold it" 4 bet I would be surprised if this was not near the bottom of this V's range for 4 bets -Maybe AQs maybe

The data that suggests the above is there was soo much folding before this to a single raise- that most often indicates the V are playing their hands only not trying to out think you and not trying to out think 2 of you with a light 4 bet . TT is seldom dominating any 4 bet from this player type under these table dynamics

the frustration you suggest may be present but most often occurs after we 3 bet people not just from us min opening 2 times- people get frustrated that we are not letting them see the cards for cheap and then may try to get us to fold pre but seldom do they do it three ways light

It is good that you are thinking about these strategies but we have to be careful in game when we assume too soon that we know what they are thinking.