$10 NLHE 6-max: Min Raised on FLop By Aggro

[rhombus]

$10 NLHE 6-max: Min Raised on FLop By Aggro

Only 6 hands 67/67 AG% 60 3B 50
a) What does here do inthis situation
What difference if Villain was b) Passive or c) standard Reg


pokerstars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed)

Button ($5.64)
Hero (SB) ($13.58)
BB ($11.46)
UTG ($16.92)
MP ($3.36)
CO ($10.17)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

, K

2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.70) 2

, 5

, K

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.07, CO raises to $2.14, Hero ???

 

[IPlay]

Idk how I feel about 3 betting KQo.

On flop, call and reevaluate turn unless I had a very good read that villain is extremely passive

 

[c9h13no3]

I'd just call pre, this villain will give you his stack without much trouble preflop, so there's no reason to bloat the pot before you have showdown value.

On the flop, we're just looking for the best way to get the money in. So call & check/raise all non-club turns?

 

[MinhANguyen]

I don't see why we're excited to GII here with TPGK. You can only get 1 or two streets of value with this hand. I'd check-call, check-call, check-fold. Or check, bet, bet if he checks behind OTF. You'll be surprised by how some people call you down lighter if you check a street, especially since there is a FD out there. Also, our hand cannot stand any heat if we get raised on the flop. AK beats us, we're chopping with KQ that are doing dumb min-raises, crushed by sets, barely ahead of the nut flush draw. Calling or shoving turns against that range is spewing money. By checking we can also induce some bluffs or get some low/mid PP that think they're good and put out a "protection bet" lol. It's also good to have semi-strong hands here in our checking range. People generally bet here with all their value hands/air/Kx, so checking narrows our range to QQ/JJ/marginal hands most of the time, and we can get barreled off by any decent player.

I'm fine with 3-bet pre. We retake the initative, can bluff on decent flop textures, or take it down pre. Decent blockers to premium hands and their continuing range helps a bit too.

 

[c9h13no3]

Because villain's stack only has 1 or 2 streets of bets. Google "stack to pot ratio".

 

[rhombus]

I actually raised to $6 they called and pot was nealry $14 and they only had $3.30 left so I put them in on the Turn

Thay had 55 for a flopped set. I just seem to run into these hands all the time against aggros, wasnt sure if playing bad or running bad

I know if I called the pot would have been $6 with effective stack around $7

Just wondered if this line is ok vs aggro player and what difference it would make against a reg or Passive player.

I was assuming Ok to shove against aggro,
Unsure against reg probably call and see if any clubs hit turn
Passive maybe find a fold

 

[MinhANguyen]

No it doesn't. And I know what SPR is, thank you very much. The SPR is 5 and againat a reasonable stack-off range KQ/TPGK has bad equity. If you're somehow getting it in on one or two streets with TPGK/one pair hands with an SPR of 5, that's generally overplaying your hand.

6 hands is not enough hands to conclude he is aggro. He could just be getting a good run of cards. I've had tables where I run 12/7 or 50/40 over 15-20 hands. I play around 22/18. And just because he is aggro does not mean his stack-off range is going to be light.

 

[vinylspiros]

i love how you played the hand. . Whats up with people telling him not to 3bet KQ off when a supposedly aggrodonk villain opens from CO. We crush his range most of the time since these guys are opening as wide as 45 off or 22 suited or whatever.

Some of the times they have premiums but for the most part,they are just folding pre so we are printing money.

For the times they dont fold pre, we always take it down with a cbet on any flop that they didnt hit hard which is most of them.


And in this particular hand posted, we hit TPGK after 3betting pre versus an aggressive player.


Since we know he is aggressive i don't mind checking this flop in order to allow him to turn all medium-small pocket pairs into bluffs or to turn FD's into bluff's. The problem if we follow this line is we allow him to check flop behind and get there for free so i preffer the cbet line. I also wouldnt mind another cbet on the turn even if the flush comes into play,

because sometimes they pick up the FD on the turn and are now even more willing to call another barrell with their pocket pair which they flotaed with on our flop cbet.


Then if river kinda bricks, check calling like the best line you can take to get max value.





Tis even make any sense? or have i lost my mind?

 

[vinylspiros]

I actually raised to $6 they called and pot was nealry $14 and they only had $3.30 left so I put them in on the Turn

Thay had 55 for a flopped set. I just seem to run into these hands all the time against aggros, wasnt sure if playing bad or running bad

I know if I called the pot would have been $6 with effective stack around $7

Just wondered if this line is ok vs aggro player and what difference it would make against a reg or Passive player.

I was assuming Ok to shove against aggro,
Unsure against reg probably call and see if any clubs hit turn
Passive maybe find a fold

why are you raising flop? If you feel like your hand is ahead and you are looking to play for stacks,flatting here is fine to make sure they are commited enough to get it in on the turn regardless of what hits. You raising his flop bet , to me, feels like you dont know why it is your doing what your doing.


im flatting his bet here most of the time and if turn bricks(doesnt complete the flush), and he jams,im mostly snap folding . cause only sets play this way or overpairs. Only the very good aggros will jam turn with this line and its hard to tell when they have it or they dont. Also AK is a possibility we should be worried about, to make it an even easier fold.

 

[IPlay]

3 betting here or not is probably not much of an EV difference but I am surprised no one mentioned the sizing of this 3 bet.

You are OOP and attempting a 3 bet bluff you need to make it 3.5x atleast.

 

[c9h13no3]

3 betting here or not is probably not much of an EV difference but I am surprised no one mentioned the sizing of this 3 bet.

You are OOP and attempting a 3 bet bluff you need to make it 3.5x atleast.

I assumed it was for value... When a guy is 67/67, you're probably not bluffing right?

 

[MinhANguyen]

Not really a bluff or for value. 3-betting KQ vs LP opener is depolarizing. CO/BTN tend to flat IP with suited broadways and PPs so KQ has good equity against that range. We expect AA/KK/AK to 4-bet pre so we're hardly ever dominated except by AQ and QQ, which we block. But yeah I agree 3-bet needs to be bigger. At least 3x; a lot advocate 3.5x+. I prefer depolarizing my 3-bet range OOP because people call too much IP with speculative hands, PPs, and suited broadways. IP I have both a polarized and depolarized range. Just personal preference.

 

[rhombus]

Thanks for all comments so far

so in summary the general suggestions would be

OOP 3Bet 3.5 - 4 to lower SPR with a depolarised Range(Top and Middle of your Range)
In Position 3Bet 2.5 - 3 with a polarised Range(Top and Bottom of your Range).

If this is the case in general does it alter when playing against Aggros/Regs and FISH.

i.e. always play depolarised against fish because they will call down light and you dont want the bottom of your range as less likely to hit

 

[Figaroo2]

+1 no point 3betting weak hands against aggro fish who never fold to a 3bet.
Top/middle of your range in any position against those types.
I don't mind a call or 3bet pre we crush his range regardless.
Will get squeezed less 3betting but on the other hand we don't risk getting 4 bet by calling and if the bb is weak I'd prefer to keep them in with a call.
I think you played this hand fine against this guy you just ran into a set. Unlucky.
Nice to see you guys feeding back regularly, heart and soul of this forum.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Lots of the above advice is based on stats for only 6 hands. There is no way we know how this guy's stats are going to shake out. With so few hands he's basically just unknown.

 

[Figaroo2]

It may be only six hands but to quote Vinyl "we all know where it's heading".

 

[IPlay]

Lots of the above advice is based on stats for only 6 hands. There is no way we know how this guy's stats are going to shake out. With so few hands he's basically just unknown.

Yup this, I usually play about 22/17 and I have had stats of 60/60 my first 10 hands, it is pretty common. Sure we might be ahead of his raising range pre but the only part of his calling range we are ahead of is suited connectors and we are still going to be OOP against someone that we don't really know. If he is an aggro fish like his stats are starting to show we are going to be in many shitty spots post flop and are we ever going to feel good committing our stack with TPGK?

Though 3 betting or not is hardly worthy of discussion and can go either way. It is just much higher variance for probably close to the same EV outcome.

 

[c9h13no3]

Depolarize at 10NL?

It's also unlikely a 20/20 got 4/6 hands worth raising. Sure there's a 20% chance he's sane, but poker's all about incomplete information. I'll do the math when I get back.

 

[IPlay]

I'ma just leave this here....

20 hands later

 

[Tomasz]

unk player ??? small pots , call preflop go to showdown and change gameplan for next hands

 

[Figaroo2]

Yeah and your an aggressive player so you are going to be expected to show stats like that regularly on a small sample. Inference = you are aggressive. and we know that because you're decent.
A true passive or loose passive who hardly ever raises will only very rarely show 60% agg even after playing only 4 of 6 hands and also rarely two 3bets in four hands.
If it was only 1-3 hands Id say ignore the stats
Inference= the guy in this hand is indicating towards aggressive rather than passive