$10 NL HE 6-max: Terrible call with KK?

[blueskies]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.05/$.10

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

Villain opens to 26c from CO. I have KhKd on SB. I 3bet to 93c. I have villain marked as donky mcdonkmeister. He calls.

JsAsKc flop. I lead out $1.30 into $1.96 pot (not rake adjusted). He calls. It's about 2/3 pot non-rake-adjusted, but adjusted for rake it would be a larger bet.

Turn's Qc. I check. And he shoves.

Knowing how this guy plays, certainly can have a T. I also have seen him shove multiple times in the past with weak/medium strength hands. He would shove two pairs here. Even if he does have a T I still had outs. So I called.

It was a $7.36 call (he had under $10) into a $4.56 pot.

Cooler? Or did I just make another boneheaded call?

Spoiler

he had the most likely non-bluff hand, AhTs.

 

[mssmotilda]

I think you did everything right, and the check-call of the turn was the best decision. There will be a lot of bluffs and semi-bluffs here after your check of the turn. Your opponent will have a lot of hands with a pair plus a flush draw that he will want to push after your check, there will be 2 pairs and 2 sets below yours that he will push. And even if he has a ten, you have outs to get to a full house.

 

[steve01991]

i think you played it correct, too bad you didnt hit a boat.

 

[Suns of Beaches]

It's a very tough one but to call there can't be really terrible ever.

Not sure if donkmeister ever overshoves there with 2 pair...

 

[puzzlefish]

Turn shoves are usually strong at low stakes.

 

[Station_Master]

He called you pre with ATo what a fish!
But, your 3bet size is too small and will mean more continues (fine with KK but presumably you have bluffs too).
Turn is close, I think few people.are taking that line as a bluff at 10NL , so.probably fold is better.

 

[SpanRmonka]

He called you pre with ATo what a fish!
But, your 3bet size is too small and will mean more continues (fine with KK but presumably you have bluffs too).
Turn is close, I think few people.are taking that line as a bluff at 10NL , so.probably fold is better.

I think I tend to agree with this. Reads can be helpful but I don't think what you typed here helped you. Calling him a donkey, maybe persudes you to call more often. But, is he a very loose donkey, or just poor pre flop, does he make massive overbet bluffs. I tend to think most players don't at this level.

What I think happens sometimes when we label a player as bad, is we end up with a feeling of entitlement that we should beat them, and that can make us make bad decisions. Try to stick to notes that are more suggestive of actual play styles. Thee are loads of ways to be a donkey!! You don't have to beat him every time!

Finally, the fact that we see him make shoves with weak holdings doesn't mean he can here. What were the situations there.....right here, a weak player with a medium strength hand can easily just check back too, as your play looks like standard C bet, then check back a dangerous turn.

 

[Station_Master]

I think I tend to agree with this. Reads can be helpful but I don't think what you typed here helped you. Calling him a donkey, maybe persudes you to call more often. But, is he a very loose donkey, or just poor pre flop, does he make massive overbet bluffs. I tend to think most players don't at this level.

What I think happens sometimes when we label a player as bad, is we end up with a feeling of entitlement that we should beat them, and that can make us make bad decisions. Try to stick to notes that are more suggestive of actual play styles. Thee are loads of ways to be a donkey!! You don't have to beat him every time!

Finally, the fact that we see him make shoves with weak holdings doesn't mean he can here. What were the situations there.....right here, a weak player with a medium strength hand can easily just check back too, as your play looks like standard C bet, then check back a dangerous turn.

He is a bad player as he called ATo to a 3bet , that doesn't mean we need to call the shove

 

[SpanRmonka]

He is a bad player as he called ATo to a 3bet , that doesn't mean we need to call the shove

No it def doesn't. I was kind of suggesting that same thing.

Maybe not very clearly. What I'm trying to say in labeling someone as bad, potentailly, makes us more likely to want to call the shove, as we feel like we should trya nd beat him. Rather than making m=best decisions and waiting for our time!

 

[Aballinamion]

Villain opens to 26c from CO. I have KhKd on SB. I 3bet to 93c. I have villain marked as donky mcdonkmeister. He calls.

JsAsKc flop. I lead out $1.30 into $1.96 pot (not rake adjusted). He calls. It's about 2/3 pot non-rake-adjusted, but adjusted for rake it would be a larger bet.

Turn's Qc. I check. And he shoves.

Knowing how this guy plays, certainly can have a T. I also have seen him shove multiple times in the past with weak/medium strength hands. He would shove two pairs here. Even if he does have a T I still had outs. So I called.

It was a $7.36 call (he had under $10) into a $4.56 pot.

Cooler? Or did I just make another boneheaded call?

Spoiler

he had the most likely non-bluff hand, AhTs.

This is not a terrible call, given that your opponent is a maniac. But we must consider one thing: maniacs also hit their equities. Thus, given this board configuration it doesn't matter if villain is a loose maniac, a passive calling station or an average regular, we assume that players know how to read board texture and this is not the best turn to put up a bluff.
That being said, you had a pretty good situation where you hit a top set against a weak player. However, we didn't have position and the board wasn't on our side.
One the the principles of the cash games is to play in position against weaker players and, in this particular case we have a weak player, in fact, but we lack equity.
Make the combos calculations and equity calculation as well and we will get to the conclusion that is very hard to fold a top set against a maniac type player, but we must lay down our hands, no matter how strong they are when the board is not on our favor.
In this case we are considering two things: the overall relative equity of our hand and the player we are facing. However we must also put another variable that is the board texture.