$10 NL HE 6-max: Flopped Straight, Facing River Shove...

[blueskies]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.05/$.10

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

I have QdTc on BTN. Opened to 28c. Both blinds call.

Flop is 8cJd9h.

Both blinds check. I cbet to 55c.

Both of these dudes are pretty lousy players. SB calls. BB folds.

Turn is 4h. SB leads out with a 10c bet. I raise to $1.46. He calls. Now after the hand I am thinking I should have shoved because this guy wouldn't even fold a J in that situation. If he turned a flush draw he probably would call a shove.

River is Jh. Definitely one of the cards I did not wanna see since it completes not only a flush but possible FH.

He shoves his remaining $7.04 into the $4.44 rake adjusted pot.

I've seen this dude make crazy moves before. I've seen him river shove with second pair. If a halfway decent player did this, I would fold and not have second thoughts. The 10c turn lead to me smells like he liked the 4h so I am thinking it is more likely a flush than FH, assuming he isn't doing something crazy again. But I couldn't bring myself to fold and I ended up calling...

Should I have just shoved the turn knowing this guy would probably call with a flush draw?

Spoiler

Kh6h. Second time today I've lost to a runner runner when the other guy had absolutely nothing on the flop but called anyway. I quit after this./spoiler]

 

[Station_Master]

Preflop, flop and turn look fairly standard. Sure you could raise bigger on turn but I think the size is ok, dont shove here as you will miss alot of value.

River you have to fold, the flush got there and sets/two pairs became boats. He likely has zero bluffs with this line, so just fold. Paying off huge bets on the river when you are almost always beat will kill your win rate.

 

[fundiver199]

As Station_Master say. Yes it sucks to get drawn out on, but at the end of the day it does not matter. What matter is only making the right decisions. So if you put in money on the flop and turn with the best hand and then fold on the river, when you are beat, then everything is good. And I also dont think, this is a good spot for a hero call. Its an overbet, so you need to be good at least 40% of the time, and the guy has almost told you, what he has, by taking that line. If you find it difficult to fold, even though you probably knew, you were beat, then run the time bank down. This allow the analytical part of you brain to take over from the emotional part.

 

[SrMartis]

Man, In the last few weeks, I've seen this kind of situation many many times in a row.

Every time I called I was behind, so I started to avoid these big bets in the river, normally in endeed up losing to nuts or semi nuts.

Think about it for a second, you had the initiative since the start, when you do a reraise you're saying, hey I have a strong, he now know it. And even after your strong move he shoves aganist you. He's screaming "I have a better hand than you!"

 

[blueskies]

Yeah I messed up bad. Against that type of player I struggle sometimes.

 

[fundiver199]

I've seen this dude make crazy moves before. I've seen him river shove with second pair.

Yeah I messed up bad. Against that type of player I struggle sometimes.

I deliberately ignored this background description in my reply, because I think, such "reads" might be part of the problem. So you had seen him shove the river with second pair. But what was the context of that? Were stacks shallow, or was it perhaps a reasonable spot to turn second pair into a bluff? If someone play many hands, it can be tempting to feel, that they can never have it.

But actually a wide range has more suited hands, that might make a flush. Its also easy to confuse loose play on early street with huge, wild bluffs on the river. But the strategy for loose players is generally to try to make a hand and then get payed. So when they overbet river, our first assumption should usually be, that they made a hand, not that they are bluffing.

The other option is, that your read was correct, and that this player actually does do a lot of wild bluffing on the river for all his money. But in that case you need to be ok with the result, if you call, and it turns out, that this time he was not bluffing. And the fact, you had to sit out afterwards, is a strong indication, it was an emotional call rather than a call based on a good read.

 

[AdamasDate]

hello blue sky's hope you are well just to give a small summary to the hand

preflop
Fine as played

Flop u hit the stones ur size is fine there's alot of turn cards that can change the landscape e.g if the board pairs or a 10 rolls off u would have to slow the car down a bit

turn

When he donk 10c I would just put him on a draw hand value don't play in that way and ur range is still uncapped jamming is a misplay u let him play perfectly with his draw and weak hands and calls u with high equity hands so fine as it is

River

Sorry to say my guy but this is the worst card in the deck for u and at this point am really not feeling my hand anymore as he raise turn so its either full house or flush u beat very little now and when he over pot jams ur stone dead as much as u want to call it don't make sense u don't beat his value anymore so fold is a must

Sorry for ur suck out but it is what it is

 

[Aballinamion]

I have QdTc on BTN. Opened to 28c. Both blinds call.

Flop is 8cJd9h.

Both blinds check. I cbet to 55c.

Nice bet for protection and for value. A major part of our range is c-betting this flop for value and also for bluff plus we eliminate one of the players involved in the hand.

Both of these dudes are pretty lousy players. SB calls. BB folds.

We seek situations like this, to play against recreational players in position.

Turn is 4h. SB leads out with a 10c bet. I raise to $1.46. He calls.

They don't know why they bet, they are just clicking buttons. Our raise is good because we still need protection and we want to gain value of a ton of losing hands that could've lead this turn. Villain calling doesn't mean anything.

River is Jh. Definitely one of the cards I did not wanna see since it completes not only a flush but possible FH.

I could run the math behind combos here but there is no need for it, since we know it already by intuition. We know that villain has much more bluffs than values in a spot like this. On the other hand, a player that theoretically doesn't have any clue how to bet (leading turn for 10ish for example), it's kindda scary when it shoves on this river.
Weak players love to pursuit weak aces, to defend weak aces, to go with AK unimproved til the river and shove it, they also love to defend any types of flushes. Considering all of this we fold, because if we but a bunch of suited connectors and a bunch of KXs, QXs, JXs, we are losing to an immense world of flushes.
But if we do believe this guy is capable of shoving this river with a TPTK, we snap call it.
And you gave your own answer mate: you should've jammed on the turn since there was a good pot already to collect and on top of that we give horrible odds to our opponent to call. It it happens that it hits its flush or full house on the river, it doesn't matter.

 

[John A]

What database are you using? Why can't you post a hand history?

 

[blueskies]

THis is on BOL. Their hand history is in table form in a graphic. It is too big to fit all info on the screen. They also disabled taking screen shots so I literally would have to take a photo of it and it would be even harder to see what's going on.

 

[John A]

THis is on BOL. Their hand history is in table form in a graphic. It is too big to fit all info on the screen. They also disabled taking screen shots so I literally would have to take a photo of it and it would be even harder to see what's going on.

So you're not using a HUD on there? Makes tracking your results and posting these hands up here way easier.

 

[blueskies]

I use the free HUD BOL provides. But after the table is closed, I only have memory to go by as player data search is not available as far as I know. I usually don't remember the villain stats afterwards if I am not looking at them. I don't know how to sync the BOL stuff with the forum's format.

 

[fundiver199]

Does BetOnline (BOL) even support external trackers? The site does not show up in PT4 in the list of sites, that can be configured for import. Unless perhaps its under some different name?