The Most Possible Outs

truerehan · Sep 4, 2011

My calculation is 25 outs is the most outs you can have

Here is my scenario:
My hole cards: 6 diamonds 7 diamonds
Opponent's hole cards: 2 diamonds 2 hearts
Flop: 4 hearts 4 diamonds 5 diamonds
Turn: 9 of clubs
YOU WILL HAVE:
8 outs for the flush (technically 6 outs for flush, 2 outs for straight flush) and the reason it is 8 outs instead of 9 is because opponent has one of the diamonds (if you give opponent a different non-diamond 2, if the 2 of diamonds comes will give him a boat so same difference)
6 outs for a larger pair (3 outs for hitting a 6, 3 outs for hitting a 7)
6 outs for a straight (3 outs for hitting a 3, 3 outs for hitting an 8) *note any diamond would be for the straigh flush so that is why it is 6 and not 8 and has already been accounted for above.
5 outs for counterfeit ( 3 outs for hitting a 5, making opp two pair no good and 2 outs of hitting a 9, making a higher two pair than opp)
This was all done personally, let me know if this is correct or you think there can be more.

Egon Towst · Sep 4, 2011

Looks about right, but technically what you have calculated is the number of "clean" outs - those which do not also improve your opponent`s hand. Such an accurate calculation is only possible in an all-in situation when the cards are on their backs and you know your opponent`s exact holding.

More often, in a real life situation, you will not have that information and will be calculating the total number of outs, but using your judgement to discount those which are doubtful, based on your assessment of the opponent`s likely hand or range of hands.

ben_rhyno · Sep 4, 2011

Try with [10s] [Js] vs [2s] [2h]:

Flop: [9s] [Qs] [9h]

Our outs:
8 x spades
3 non spade 8's
3 non-spade K's
3 J's
3 10's
3 Q's

I can only get 23 outs maximum for the flop, but i'm certain it's been calculated before, if the [Ac] comes on the turn, we pick up 3 extra outs to the counterfeit, so 26 total

truerehan · Sep 4, 2011

@ Egon i took those into consideration actually, and this is a scenario which all cards are turned over and a heads up deck with all 44 cards being available after the 4 hole cards and 4 community cards.
The only cards that he can benefit from is a 4 for a fullhouse and a 2 for a fullhouse, and those werent outs listed to benefit my hole cards. The rest of the cards would make you lose, but they werent listed as my outs, so this is accurate.

@ben_rhyno Yeah you can change the cards and get the same result, that is the exact scenario actually, but 26 was close but not right, because you forgot if ace of clubs come, all three of the rest of aces are outs however one was accounted for the flush already the ace of spades, so then ends up being 25. But thank you, this confirms that I have done my math right. I really do believe 25 is the maximum you can have.
Great insight guys, thanks a lot.

cheaptrix · Sep 4, 2011

23 outs plus 2 for a chop

edit: nvm, i'm a donk. yep 25 outs. just stoved it, we are actually a favorite. 53.4% equity.

truerehan · Sep 4, 2011

@cheap trix thanks for confirming
i just downloaded stove saw it on another poker thread. but from my math, in a HU situation ( 4 Hole Cards and 4 Community Cards) with 44 cards left, 25 outs divided by 44 = 56.8% according to a calculator lol, but I am not sure if my math is wrong or that pokerstove is innaccurate, your take?

cheaptrix · Sep 4, 2011

truerehan said:
@cheap trix thanks for confirming
i just downloaded stove saw it on another poker thread. but from my math, in a HU situation ( 4 Hole Cards and 4 Community Cards) with 44 cards left, 25 outs divided by 44 = 56.8% according to a calculator lol, but I am not sure if my math is wrong or that pokerstove is innaccurate, your take?

ahh ha! i was on the right path to begin with. the difference is because three 5's give us a tie.
so we have 22 outs 3 for a chop... was originally thinking 2 nines gave us a chop, lol.

truerehan · Sep 4, 2011

and i just put it in poker stove and it says 3.41% for a tie, but there is no cards for a chopped pot
if a 9 comes out, you will still have a 7 kicker he will have a 2 kicker, im starting to question the validity of pokerstove.

cheaptrix · Sep 4, 2011

truerehan said:
and i just put it in poker stove and it says 3.41% for a tie, but there is no cards for a chopped pot
if a 9 comes out, you will still have a 7 kicker he will have a 2 kicker, im starting to question the validity of pokerstove.

a rivered 5 gives you a chop

truerehan · Sep 4, 2011

hahaha sweeet dude ur awesome, yah i posted my last post before your second to last post and then i ran out of poker posts cuz im new to this site, so i had to make this account. Yep, you and poker stove is right, the 3 fives give the chopped pot, 22 outs and 3 for a chop is correct.

KoRnholio · Sep 4, 2011

I saw an Omaha example once where it was possible to have the best hand on the turn against 3 opponents, but have 0% chance to win once the river card comes. A very contrived example, but still possible.

It was something like bottom set against a collection of 2 pair/straight draws/flush draws, and someone holding your case card needed to get quads.

baudib1 · Sep 5, 2011

KoRnholio said:
A very contrived example, but still possible.

Contrived? Totally standard.

DDylann1101 · Dec 15, 2014

The most outs possible is 26...

Hi,

I have calculated that the most possible number of outs on the river (i.e. cards to come on the river that will WIN not draw the hand) is 27.

Take the situation:
Hero has Ks 8s, Villain has 7c, 7h.

Community Cards:
10s Js, 10d, Qc

The villain has the following outs:
9 spade outs for flush/straight flush
3 kings
3 eights
3 jacks
2 queens (one is a spade)
3 aces (one is a spade)
3 nines (one is a spade)

That adds up to 26 outs on the river.

Thankyou
Let me know if I have made a mistake anywhere.

HooDooKoo · Dec 15, 2014

DDylann1101 said:
Hi,

I have calculated that the most possible number of outs on the river (i.e. cards to come on the river that will WIN not draw the hand) is 27.

Take the situation:
Hero has Ks 8s, Villain has 7c, 7h.

Community Cards:
10s Js, 10d, Qc

The villain has the following outs:
9 spade outs for flush/straight flush
3 kings
3 eights
3 jacks
2 queens (one is a spade)
3 aces (one is a spade)
3 nines (one is a spade)

That adds up to 26 outs on the river.

Thankyou
Let me know if I have made a mistake anywhere.

Your post title says 26 outs, as does your "adds up" line. The first sentence of the post, though, says 27 outs. I'm pretty sure you think the correct answer is 26, but it's hard to be certain given the use of both 26 and 27.

Regardless, you incorrectly counted the 7 of spades as an out for the drawing hand, since that card gives the pocket 7s a boat vs. the drawing hand's K-high flush. So the actual number of outs is 25.

And this example, like the previous ones, is totally contrived. Played reasonably well, one of these hands is going to think they are WAY behind well before the river, so we aren't getting to the river unless the players are total droolers.

-HooDooKoo

da_goat · Dec 16, 2014

Too many outs, you won't get there, but the donkey that calls you with 2 outs will surely get there...lol!

cyclone45 · Dec 16, 2014

When I was playing that hand with Bill, the one where he had QQ and I had J9C and the flop was Qc 10c 2s how many outs would I have had if I called?

HooDooKoo · Dec 16, 2014

cyclone45 said:
When I was playing that hand with Bill, the one where he had QQ and I had J9C and the flop was Qc 10c 2s how many outs would I have had if I called?

This isn't really an outs type of hand because of all the redraw outs your opponent has. You have 42% equity on the flop, though.

-HooDooKoo

cyclone45 · Dec 16, 2014

Do you think I should have called the ALL in? I knew he had QQ because HE SHOWED it(we were heads up in a cash game)

HooDooKoo · Dec 16, 2014

Depends on how much money was already in the pot and how much money you each had behind. odds are very good that calling was +EV.

-HooDooKoo

teepack · Dec 17, 2014

The most I can come up with is 25.

Let's say you have KsQs vs. 2h2c.

The board is 10s, Js, 6h, 6c.

You have seven outs to hit a flush (As, 3s, 4s, 5s, 7s, 8s, 9s, 10s). The 2s and 6s would give the villain a full house, which beats your flush.

You have 3 outs to hit a 10 to give you two pairs (10s and 6s) vs. his 2 pair (2s and 6s).

You have 3 outs to hit a J for the same scenario.

You have 3 outs to hit a Q for the same scenario.

You have 3 outs to hit a K for the same scenario.

You have 3 outs to hit a 9 for a straight.

You have 3 outs to hit an Ace for a straight.

That totals up to 25 outs.

love that omaha · Dec 17, 2014

Try some Omaha hands with nuclear wraps and nut flush draws - maybe double suited and drawing to both on the turn - plus hi lo with outs to scoop or outs to win low only. Here is my favorite hand which I lost a huge pot with then two days later won almost 800 dollars in my uncle's thanksgiving game --- AA 25 suited in hearts and diamonds (ace high both) flop 34 9 two diamonds one heart turn K hearts you are up against K 10 9 8 no flush draw one diamond and one heart in his hand.... good luck counting all the outs without missing some

da_goat · Dec 18, 2014

love that omaha said:
Try some Omaha hands with nuclear wraps and nut flush draws - maybe double suited and drawing to both on the turn - plus hi lo with outs to scoop or outs to win low only. Here is my favorite hand which I lost a huge pot with then two days later won almost 800 dollars in my uncle's thanksgiving game --- AA 25 suited in hearts and diamonds (ace high both) flop 34 9 two diamonds one heart turn K hearts you are up against K 10 9 8 no flush draw one diamond and one heart in his hand.... good luck counting all the outs without missing some

Omaha Hi/Lo is a sick and twisted game...I love it!

aaronsmith123 · Apr 4, 2021

ben_rhyno said:
Try with 10♠ J♠ vs 2♠ 2♥:

Flop: 9♠ Q♠ 9♥

Our outs:
8 x spades
3 non spade 8's
3 non-spade K's
3 J's
3 10's
3 Q's

I can only get 23 outs maximum for the flop, but i'm certain it's been calculated before, if the A♣ comes on the turn, we pick up 3 extra outs to the counterfeit, so 26 total

Yes, 26 is correct for most possible outs in Texas Hold Em

Has anyone calculated most possible out for OMAHA.

I have been trying to figure that one out.
I have been googling it but, can't find an answer.

please let me know if you know that number.
I would love to know what it is.

Thank you much.
Aaron

abgvedr · Apr 4, 2021

aaronsmith123 said:
Yes, 26 is correct for most possible outs in Texas Hold Em

Has anyone calculated most possible out for OMAHA.

I have been trying to figure that one out.
I have been googling it but, can't find an answer.

please let me know if you know that number.
I would love to know what it is.

Thank you much.
Aaron

This thread is like some sort of a bear, waking up every once in awhile to have few answers and then go to sleep for 4 years

Snake2007 · Apr 4, 2021

I had a lot of outings with very good books. And that made me believe that in poker if you don't have a gram of luck you are nothing.

The Most Possible Outs

truerehan

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truerehan

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cheaptrix

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truerehan

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truerehan

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truerehan

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love that omaha

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